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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think this is the height of unprofessionalism?

170 replies

ScrawlyEmbroidery · 23/11/2022 20:45

I've opened a brand new Nursery school - it's in a beachy, tourist destination and when I first advertised the role we had lots of amazing candidates as we were providing accommodation, great salary etc etc in a very unusual and attractive area.

I had a lady apply who was just amazing - extremely professional, very qualified, was going to relocate with her two children and was very enthusiastic about the role. Her interview went brilliantly, she passed all the checks and accepted the position. So I ended the job advert, and put some temps in place to cover her slightly longer than average notice period - expensive and time consuming (on our very limited budget) but worth it for someone so awesome.

We kept in regular contact - I went above and beyond with getting her accommodation set up perfectly, arranging pen pals in our area for her kids (it's a remote area), setting up subscriptions for her, arranging a specialist visa, getting activities that I knew her and her kids would like arranged in the area and making hampers for their arrival. Answered all her questions, helped her with all the travel and just tried to be as supportive as possible.

Day for her arrival comes..... and she doesn't show up.
I call and message, very worried (she's coming from overseas) and she tells me , in a super casual tone - oh, sorry. There was a problem with the plane. I'm going to try again tomorrow Hmm
Ok... she'd been very professional and cooperative till now so I put it down to stress travelling with two kids etc.
Next day - I had to chase her for info whilst scrabbling around to find cover as she was meant to have started. She eventually messages back with "XYZ.... will be travelling tomorrow"
Fine, okay. I kept my frustration to myself and didn't ask too many questions.
The next day again - no info and I have to gently chase her - oh, she's going to fly half way but the kids will have to take another flight (???) so probably won't be until the weekend.
Right, okay. I didn't want to make waves, so I said "okay, keep me updated" and manically tried to find cover for the absence, paying way over the odds to fly an ex employee in to cover us for the week so we had enough staff.

Weekend comes and goes, she is giving me no updates at all. I eventually message her out of desperation (I was trying not to harass her and scare her away) and she says she's booked on tomorrow's plane.
You guessed it - no show.
I message saying I'm sorry it's been so difficult, but I'm now having major staffing issues so please can she please give me an update - silence.

This was 2 weeks ago and I've not heard a thing from her, despite me politely chasing. In short - I think she's found another job and was stringing me along until it was finalised. She had every opportunity to at least tell me, and chose to string me along knowing I was having staffing issues.

But it's absolutely left me up shit creek - I now have no Nursery Manager, and I waited over 8 weeks for her - bodging together cover.
I've readvertised but the moment has been and gone, and I'm struggling for applicants (I do have a couple that I'm processing) where before I had loads.

She's reading messages but no responding - I background checked her, reference checked. I have all her documents, I paid for a visa, accommodation etc etc and she's just disappeared.

AIBU to think this is the shittiest shittiest thing to do to a tiny, new Nursery that you know has bent over backwards for you?

OP posts:
Kjpt140v · 25/11/2022 01:21

Write her off and move on.

Bigchesterdrawers · 25/11/2022 04:02

Do you still own your recruitment company?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4643573-rejecting-an-applicant-for-8-year-gap-in-cv

Can you get a replacement candidate that way?

I’m actually surprised someone who owns a recruitment company fell for the oldest trick in the book with the “problem with the flights” story.

Newwardrobe · 25/11/2022 07:42

Are any of the temps good enough to take the role permanently?

Newwardrobe · 25/11/2022 07:49

You're going to wear yourself out, you have taken on more shifts to prop the nursery up and you run a recruitment company !

NattyNatashia · 25/11/2022 09:37

A real pain but as others have said not the person you want to be relying in on future so better off in the long run.

ShirleyPhallus · 25/11/2022 09:42

Bigchesterdrawers · 25/11/2022 04:02

Do you still own your recruitment company?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4643573-rejecting-an-applicant-for-8-year-gap-in-cv

Can you get a replacement candidate that way?

I’m actually surprised someone who owns a recruitment company fell for the oldest trick in the book with the “problem with the flights” story.

Shock
sue20 · 25/11/2022 09:54

MiniCooperLover · 23/11/2022 20:54

If you've paid for her visa you need to report to the home Office that she hasn't taken up her position.

Good point!!

nannykatherine · 25/11/2022 10:02

Sounds like a lovely job

sue20 · 25/11/2022 10:04

Sorry if I missed this but did you interview her in person? It sounds sort of dodgy. Also it came to my mind that she sounded too good to be true . As they say she (he?) was. I’m afraid I think you’ve fallen for something. Hope you can sort someone else. Can you not go back to those original applicants given so many? Next time be a bit less helpful ….sounded a little OTT sorry

sue20 · 25/11/2022 10:10

Fredshred · 23/11/2022 23:13

Ok, you sound very lovely. And maybe she’s used you if not scammed you. Or changed her mind and not had the professionalism to be open and just communicate. But to be honest, you don’t sound very professional yourself (giving you the benefit of the doubt, maybe because you’re a new business) but setting up her subscriptions. Arranging activities for her kids. Seriously, next time, dial this back. She’s your prospective employee, not your sister or best friend. Keep it purely employer employee and she pays out, you reimburse. If you are going to be an employer, take the sentiment out of it.

Absolutely this. Although lovely your efforts not exactly professional. Tbh if I was future employee I might be a bit put off by such over reaching looking after.

sue20 · 25/11/2022 10:12

Bigchesterdrawers · 25/11/2022 04:02

Do you still own your recruitment company?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4643573-rejecting-an-applicant-for-8-year-gap-in-cv

Can you get a replacement candidate that way?

I’m actually surprised someone who owns a recruitment company fell for the oldest trick in the book with the “problem with the flights” story.

Interesting….

Adultkids · 25/11/2022 11:21

As a retired nursery manager I had lots of sympathy when I started reading your post then I realised you were employing her as a manager. So are you not qualified to run it yourself?

Shinyandnew1 · 25/11/2022 17:44

Adultkids · 25/11/2022 11:21

As a retired nursery manager I had lots of sympathy when I started reading your post then I realised you were employing her as a manager. So are you not qualified to run it yourself?

This confused me-I know a few people that have opened nurseries as a business but they working hours there themselves to keep it going. If it’s a small nursery-won’t you struggle to stay afloat? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to get the level 3 qualification yourself??

Mumofsons87 · 25/11/2022 18:40

Sounds to me like it would be cheaper and more succesful to pay to educate a local person than go to all that bother and get someone in who is very unlikely to make it a permanent arrangement.

Newwardrobe · 25/11/2022 19:08

What's the other job you have where you've taken on more shifts?

ScrawlyEmbroidery · 25/11/2022 21:38

I'm playing catch up, but just to reiterate - she did not run away with a visa luckily.
Where we are requires something slightly different to mainland UK - and she has to personally get it (with me) from our local office, and she was entering on a a 6 month allowance via her passport (EU).

OP posts:
ScrawlyEmbroidery · 25/11/2022 21:41

ChampagneLassie · 24/11/2022 19:22

If your post is truthful why be coy about location, this thread could be a great way to attract staff

I know - and the thought has occurred to me but the location is so specific, that if I typed the name, it would almost certainly come up in a Google search with the just the name of the place. Or possibly a Google of "LOCATION NAME" and "NURSERY"

Anyone is welcome to PM me if they'd like more details, and I can send them to a link with the job description.

The location is a remote, tourist destination that is slightly south of the UK and similar to the Sicily Islands.
I'd be grateful if people don't try and guess the name, for the aforementioned link reasons on Google Searches Smile

OP posts:
ScrawlyEmbroidery · 25/11/2022 21:44

Runover · 24/11/2022 19:34

I was a recruiter in another industry and I would recommend you use an agency that specializes in placing childcare professionals. They will be very aware of scams and when people sound too good to be true. They can do all the initial advertising, recruiting, screening and background checks etc. They will be very familiar with what someone at the level you want should have done and the solid work history they will have, which they can check for you etc. They are already networked and may know strong candidates who are looking for a change.

You can also ask the agency itself for references and the details of employers who they have place people with recently. Make sure you do your due diligence on the agency and make sure it is very professional and experienced.

Also, unfortunately I think you need to be more hard nosed and skeptical with people you interview and recruit. You sound wonderful and were bending over backward but this is when you can be taken advantage of. Be aware that if someone seems too good to be true they usually are. That’s why working with an agency could give you that buffer where they would do the initial recruiting and screening. You could even have them screen people you find yourself. In the long run this can save you a lot of hassle, time and stress. They agency might also be able to send you someone temporarily while you jointly work on finding the best permanent employee.

Of course this will cost money, but as if you have experienced you can lose significant money and valuable time with a bad recruiting experience.

Here’s a couple (I know nothing about them, just giving you an idea)

www.everythingchildcareagency.co.uk/long-term-staffing

www.albachildcareagency.co.uk

www.agencycentral.co.uk/agencysearch/childcare/agencysearch.htm

Thank you, this is helpful.
Unfortunately, in this case I'm not sure what else could have been done.
I reference checked her, police checked her, did a full internet background search plus got copies of her passport, driving license, qualifications and certificates - and cross referenced them on various things.
If it was a scam - it was a damn weird one, because she didn't benefit directly - none of the stuff I paid for was used.

OP posts:
ScrawlyEmbroidery · 25/11/2022 21:48

Sunnysummer10 · 24/11/2022 20:18

I don't mean for this to come out harshly. But business is a dog eat dog World and only those who have a strong exterior survive. I totally understand you want to help those who deserve it but your business isn't currently making a profit and therefore you can afford to do that. Sometimes tough decisions need to be made and people will take advantage of your kind nature as this awful woman has done to you already

I don't know the statistics, but I imagine most new Nurseries don't run a profit in their first year. I think the average is 3 years for most businesses?
I can't work in there anyway (not as qualified specifically) so kept my job on to fund it until it starts paying itself.

The community was desperate for a Nursery (it's the only one available to locals) - and there wasn't time to wait to build up 1-2 years of back up costs.

OP posts:
Whattodo182 · 25/11/2022 21:50

Yabu for opening a business BEFORE having a nursery manager in place.

Oh let me open a restaurant with no chefs or wait staff and hire as I go. Said no one ever.

ScrawlyEmbroidery · 25/11/2022 21:50

Katapolts · 24/11/2022 21:08

Did you really expect someone to relocate from overseas, into a fairly low paid role, with two children, and start work the next day???

That sounds very optimistic 😕when was she going to unpack and apply for schools for her children?

One of her children was going to be attending the Nursery, the other was much older and registered at an online school.
She was due to start a half shift (3 hours), 2 days after she landed.

Not to go into too much detail, but 4 days before all this the deputy manager cheated on her long distance boyfriend with a local lad (also in a relationship) and ran away with no notice, so we were already short staffed. But that's a whole other drama.

OP posts:
ScrawlyEmbroidery · 25/11/2022 21:51

Whattodo182 · 25/11/2022 21:50

Yabu for opening a business BEFORE having a nursery manager in place.

Oh let me open a restaurant with no chefs or wait staff and hire as I go. Said no one ever.

We opened with a Manager - she had to leave because her father became terminally ill.
The Nursery has been open for about 9 months, we're not that new.

OP posts:
ScrawlyEmbroidery · 25/11/2022 21:53

PickyEaters · 24/11/2022 21:54

She's a dick, but… whenever I recruited people for a position I would keep a shortlist of the two or three next-best candidates in case the first one didn't work out. Isn't this standard practice?

Yes it is, and I did that but her notice period was 8 weeks, and we added a week or so on with her messing me around - so all the people I went back to had found alternative work.

OP posts:
ScrawlyEmbroidery · 25/11/2022 21:57

GettinHyggeWithIt · 24/11/2022 22:06

In fact I’d call this whole thread bollocks. Have you acquired a Tier 2 visa for this role - is that what you’re saying?

Mumsnet procedure is to report threads you believe are made up - I've been here years and have no form for bollocks, so I imagine the admins will confirm.

We didn't require a skilled worker visa because of our location, but if we did - we'd have likely got it as "Nursery Teacher" is on the list:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-healthcare-and-education-jobs/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-healthcare-and-education-jobs - Occupation Code 2315

OP posts:
ScrawlyEmbroidery · 25/11/2022 22:00

Bigchesterdrawers · 25/11/2022 04:02

Do you still own your recruitment company?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4643573-rejecting-an-applicant-for-8-year-gap-in-cv

Can you get a replacement candidate that way?

I’m actually surprised someone who owns a recruitment company fell for the oldest trick in the book with the “problem with the flights” story.

Yes, I do.
Though it specialises more in Nannies and Housekeepers than Nursery Workers. I've placed Practitioners in International Schools before (Dubai, Kuwait etc) but never within Europe, and certainly not for something as niche as our Nursery.

For those of you thinking this is proof that I'm making it up - the Nursery school is owned by the recruitment agency and the funds to start it predominantly came from that original business venture, it's all one business.

And, for the extra nosey, the job I'm referring to that keeps the Nursery afloat is my rota job as a private Nanny. Since Covid, the agency (which places almost solely overseas) has been very quiet.

Again, happy to PM the job advertisement to anyone who's curious.

OP posts: