16 year old in hospital, adult mixed ward.

[Teenangels]

My daughter and I are currently sitting on a chair in the waiting area, to be taken up to a ward, she is 16 only just and been diagnosed with an appendicitis, she has been given morphine, so is sleepy and

I have been told that she will be going up to an adult mixed ward to wait for surgery and that I am not allowed to go up with her.

I am actually furious that my 16 year old will be surrounded by adult men, she is a child how is this allowed to happen.

In my eyes she is still a child, she can't get married (without my permission) but can be treated as a child.

AIBU and over reacting or AINBU to feel she is being totally let down.

I'm a nurse.

We'd have assessed this on a case by case basis. Some 16 year olds would be fine, others really wouldn't be. We'd let their (appropriately sexed guardian) stay with them.

You need to ask to speak the matron or the duty manager. Explain your concerns to them, they should be reasonable.

For those saying seeing an old man's arse on a ward is bullshit, you've obviously not stepped foot on one, it's regularly the first thing that greets me when I start my shift.

I'm surprised they won't let you stay tbh.
Dd who is 16 was also admitted for a similar problem. It was a mixed ward but the bays were all single sex. They let me stay with her as she's too young to make any medical decisions on her own. We stayed 2 whole days and nights, the first night she was in a side room so dad stayed with her then the second night in a bay so I stayed.
You need to speak to the head nurse and insist she needs someone. Maybe get her to ask herself as well.

She needs you with her. You'll be able to keep her calm.
I had a serious work accident at the beginning of year and was in hospital for several days after emergency surgery. I'm 34 and still wanted my mum.

Teenangels · Today 15:25
ZeroFuchsGiven · Today 15:13
We arrived and there were 2 men both in the 70's arse hanging out walking around.
Show quote history
I can take pictures!!!

Just don't. You would be violating the privacy and dignity of those patients.

You're in the right so far. Stay with your daughter regardless. Hope she's on the mend soon, I doubt they'll keep her in long.

Happened to me a few years back op. Dd was 16, still in school and was expected to go on a mixed adult ward. I was ok with this if I could stay with her. I was told no. My dd was distraught. I refused to leave. Night staff came in and I asked to speak to the nurse in charge and she was more understanding. I slept on the floor beside her bed. I then contacted pals. She was moved to children's ward the next morning. It's bloody awful!

Hope your dd has a speedy recovery x

I wouldn't leave her Op - not a chance. Don't know what you can do if security physically remove you but that's the only way I'd leave.

@Teenangels my dd is the same age as yours and I’d feel exactly the same as you. I’m so sorry you’re both going through this and hope she’s vey soon back home recovering.

I’m glad she’s got you to advocate for her but sorry that it should be necessary. 💐💐💐

Oh dear Lizzy - you appear to be part of the problem.
Of course a parent is worried and - as so many posters can attest - she may not be safe. There are numerous risks and all good parents go the extra mile to support and protect their children.

Ok - Although I understand what you are saying about 'mixed' wards as opposed to 'single sex' wards, it is absolutely the norm now everywhere or almost everywhere. So you would be not be being reasonable to complain right here and now about the policy regarding mixed wards. Not the staff's fault. Take it up with your MP in due course and anyone else who you think it is appropriate to do so with, once your daughter is back home and recovered.

It's probably unreasonable too to expect her to be in a children's ward, for reasons others have said.

However, you are being very reasonable in wanting to stay with your daughter, given her age and the fact she needs an operation and THAT I would be doing battle for. Speak to whoever you have to and insist that you need to sit with her, overnight if necessary, to keep her calm and from a safety and duty of care point of view. If there is someone else there with the same issue, do it jointly between you - and as others have said, refuse to leave. BUT it would be better to get agreement from someone higher up than whoever is on duty, as you will have to leave at some point for food etc and they could very well refuse you entry again after visiting hours.....

Most wards are mixed sex bar gynae/maternity

In most hospitals I've worked in 16yo would be on a adult ward but ideally in a side room, and a parent allowed to stay.

I think your best bet is to insist on staying with her, this is absolutely fair. They won't drag you out so I would just keep repeating that you are staying with her. There's unlikely to be any single sex wards and she needs to be in a surgical ward, the best thing is to have an adult stay with her.

As a surgeon I wouldn't be particularly happy to take a 16yo to theatre without a parent. It's firstly cruel, and secondly although 16yos can consent for themselves it's a funny age, and is preferable to have both parental and child consent.

@Mamarsupial I just don’t think it at all likely that the daughter will get raped on a hospital ward. … it HAS happened in the past, and was covered up by the NHS! This young girl is 16 for goodness sake - I would literally not leave her bedside, let the staff call the police, my priority would be my very vulnerable daughter 🤷‍♀️

She may we'll be perfectly safe but she doesn't FEEL perfectly safe and that's what counts.
I'd wait for the night staff and request again, I found a tired head nurse was a little bit more abrupt with us than the newly rested night nurse.

Same! I had surgery at 39 and ended up having a full on panic attack before I was collected due to the indifference of one particular HCP.
When I left they actually told me I should have an advocate next time as I got myself into such a state.
I'm generally a very resilient adult that puts up with shit from no-one.
If a patient needs someone with them it should never be denied. ESPECIALLY a child.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

I totally agree that photos must not be taken at any point.

However the privacy and dignity of those men is being compromised by them being allowed to walk around like that. Staff have a duty of care to protect them which they are failing in.

If staff on this ward are failing their duty of care to protect these men, then I cannot see them managing to protect OP's daughter's privacy and dignity.

Well more fool you.

Here's a free high-level lesson in Risk Management 101.

When assessing whether to mitigate risk, risk professionals assess 1) the likelihood of a risk crystallising and 2) the impact if it does. Measures to mitigate risks are justifiable even where the likelihood of them happening is relatively low, if the impact is high if they do come to pass.

Now even you must realise that the impact of rape or sexual assault is high (sometimes catastrophic, let's face it) if it happens. So even if the risk is low, it is still necessary to mitigate it. Placing a 16 year old in a situation where she is vulnerable to rape, in an environment where it has happened before, is running an unacceptable risk. This is why we have things like safeguarding measures and the OP is concerned to stay with her daughter.

It's a bit like putting on a seatbelt when you travel in a car. The risk of you being in a crash is relatively low for each journey. Yet it does happen. And the potential impact if it does can be very high. So we don't get in the car and go, 'sod it, I'm not going to bother with that seat belt. It's not the likely we'll crash today' and drive off without wearing it, do we? We put the seat belt on, because we know it's a tried and tested way of reducing risk in the event we do crash and we know we want to avoid being hurt or killed.

I bet if it was your daughter you wouldn't be so blithe about running the risk of rape on the basis it 's not 'likely'. You'd be thinking it's possible and therefore wanting sensible and reasonable measures to be put in place to keep her safe, wouldn't you.

I had appendicitis when I was (just) 19 and was on a mixed ward. Mixed bay too: they put me next to an older man with the curtain closed and opposite a teenaged boy who was blind (so it was ok as he couldn't see me, apparently).

It wasn't the most fun 5 days of my life, and I was more unwell than I even was having open heart surgery. But ultimately it was ok and I survived. The other patients weren't actually a problem; my main gripe - apart from being very unwell and vomiting bile - was that because I was on a kidney ward they insisted on measuring all fluids in and out, though I had no kidney problem. Post-op I needed a catheter because I had swelling that prevented urination. It was not fun.

My parents were at work mostly and only visited for brief periods.

That was in 1999. Hopefully you'll be able to stay with your daughter at least for a bit - but anecdotally someone of similar age did get through it without the male patients on the ward being the worst thing about it...

I won't but not to be believed.

we are in a bay and the mixed toilets are directly opposite the bay so everyone is walking past to use them.

Op have you called PALS - I really recommend. You can Google them - number in your hospital and call them from the ward. I would not be happy at all with this if this was my dd so can completely understand how you feel

Yes. That was an absolutely abhorrent post.

@Teenangels please ignore all these posters talking about rape. They are catastrophising a situation that is highly unlikely to happen and just make you more fearful. I am not minimising anyone's experience of sexual assault however if you read the evidence of the articles posted on this thread, a large proportion of the assaults happened on mental health units rather than general hospitals. These patients one have mental health issues, and two are likely to be far more mobile.

I do think however that making you go home overnight isn't compassionate or right particularly when your daughter is scared. I've looked after many 16 year olds who don't want their parents there, and many who do and they are allowed to stay. This was pre covid however. I would ask to speak to someone more senior than the nurse in charge of the ward, such as the surgical matron, site coordinator or chief operating officer of the day. Here you could escalate your concerns and regarding not being allowed to stay and how that would cause significant distress to your daughter.

If there are men walking around with body parts exposed then definitely mention this to the nurse in charge to see that their dignity is maintained and your daughter isn't being exposed to this either. Unfortunately when waiting for surgery patients are often given gowns to wear which are not great if a patient doesn't have a dressing gown or forgets to put one on.

I hope your daughter gets her op soon and is ok, OP.

YANBU

My DD is 15 and I would not be comfortable leaving her when she’s never had an operation before.

I would not want my child around grown adults but I also would want my 5 year old around strange 16 year olds who are almost adults, so I can see why they’re not with young children.

In a perfect world they would have teen wards but as a compromise I think they should allow parents to stay if they wish and don’t mind sleeping on a chair.

She will be absolutely fine and she’ll have a curtain for privacy.
Just stay as long as you are allowed and go back in the morning.

@oobeedoobee that isn’t the case in the UK or Ireland. I’m not sure what country you’re in but it’s not very helpful for the op to be repeatedly stating entirely incorrect rubbish.

Also your bold type seems to have gone mad and it’s very annoying.

As a mother of teen girls, the fact that there are HCPs posting on this thread, saying that this is normal and nothing to be worried about, and insinuating that the op is being hysterical and hyperbolic, would make me more, not less, concerned if I were the op frankly.

And where has the op said she is not grateful for a bed or is unaware of the potential seriousness of appendicitis? Why are people assuming that the op would not be calm and supportive in front of her child? It's so patronising to suggest those things simply because she is worried about basic safe- guarding! !

This is about not putting an ill teenager in a situation where she could potentially be harmed fhs!

I remember being on a female ward as a younger woman and having to cross a landing area where male patients congregated outside the lifts to talk, and that was bad enough and really intimidating and I was in my early thirties at the time.

Op YANBU at all. In your shoes I would calmly and quietly be doing my best to stick around.

You don't know that.

In a local hospital, at least half a dozen women were drugged up and raped by a male member of the staff before he was caught when his 17 year old latest victim woke up in the middle of it.

Take your gaslighting elsewhere. And your obnoxious exclamatio marks while you're at it...

I was 13 and on an adult mixed ward with appendicitis - I never thought to question it (until now) and I presume neither did my parents!