How would you cope knowing this about your grandmother?

[elephantonacid]

Grandmother lives in a different city and I haven't seen her for a couple of years. Always had a lot of love for her and she's always been wonderful to me. As I've gotten older though and as the adults in my family have started talking to me more about things a child would be sheltered from, I've come to learn that the reason my father and aunt are so messed up psychologically is because my grandmother abused them horrifically.

They were terrified of her. She would beat them with wood and belt buckles. If they spoke out of tone they would be put in a cold bath. Locked in cupboards, kicked, starved etc. Obviously as a child I did not know this, but I always knew my dad struggled with his mental health and was quite closed off emotionally (not all the time, he's NEVER been abusive, he's a wonderful father).

I really struggle now having learnt that she abused someone I love so much to the extent that he still struggles a lot as an adult, and my aunt who I also adore is very psychologically damaged.

Suddenly feel a but numb to who was once my lovely grandma who could do no wrong.

thats kind of you @Melonapplepear . I’m sure your awareness of your experiences will ensure you don’t repeat the patterns, you sound very insightful and that’s half the battle xx

You say the abuse happened from being small to teens. It's possible that during late teens/early 20s/30s your GM changed, repaired her ways and the relationship improved. You say she's always been wonderful to you so she didn't carry on the abusive behaviour beyond a certain point, or in a way you were aware of.

Your dad sounds a wonderful man who has worked hard to be a loving parent himself despite his childhood experiences. Perhaps he has found some healing through seeing your GM be a wonderful grandparent, even if he didn't experience that himself from her as a child. Perhaps with the passing of time he is aware of pressures on her life at the time which partly made her act how she did. Perhaps he has actively chosen to forgive and move on. Perhaps she had experienced the same in her own childhood and had no clue how to be different. People's pasts can be littered with tragedies unknown to others.

Possibly he talks with your aunt about their childhood and shared experiences, and doesn't need to share with anyone beyond that and he gets some peace from things being loving and settled now. Sometimes people really don't want to go deep into their past, especially with their children, but can find that a word or two that shows someone understands something wasn't all sunshine and roses, without forcing any details, very comforting.

I agree with this. If you love and respect your dad so much you should prioritise his wishes over yours if at all possible.

All the posters saying they couldn't speak to her, would let her rot etc are basically encouraging causing your dad stress and pain as he's going to be the one in the middle if you start refusing to see her when she asks to see you, not visiting him at Christmas if she's there etc.

I think you need to start considering what your hard boundaries are. For example if your grandmother needs care in the future and your dad and aunt provide it, will you help them out or prioritise your own feelings by letting them do it all alone? If you feel you physically would not be able to provide care to your gran herself would you be able to do the admin/finance elements or clean the house etc? Can you reframe this in your mind as helping them rather that her?

I'm not saying it's easy but you can't go back in time and help the little boy your dad was, all you can do is support your dad now, but to do this his wishes, whatever they need to be, should take precedence over your feelings.

@IrrelevantNameChange thank you 💐

Why? She's been loving to OP and the person she wasn't loving to has forgiven her

My parents are from the West Indies, and they were very strict with me, my Dad never touched me, but used to lecture me a lot and was very strict on going out as a teenager ( all of us went to University and got good jobs, grew up in a poor area) My mum used to beat me at least once a week, with broomsticks, tennis rackets, real abuse. I've forgiven her and she has a wonderful relationship with my DC, who haven't a clue.

I forgave my mother as she told me what her parents did to her back in the Caribbean, which was on another level. My gran once stripped my mother and whipped her with a piece of wire in the street at 14 when she went out partying and came home late when she should of been cooking and cleaning in the house.

Caribbean culture is matriachal where the mother uses beatings for discipline, all of the punishment (abuse) never came out of nowhere, it was for being rude, not doing house work, getting in trouble at school, etc.

Today we call it abuse. The beatings I got as a kid would be grounds for prosecution , and me getting taken into care today, the beatings my mother got would be grounds for imprisonment!

As a family we have all moved on, I forgive my mother and because she has forgiven my gran, so have I.

It was wrong, evil even, but it belonged to an old culture of voilence, Trinidad's voilent slave history and common ideas about spare the rod and spoil the child- an old English saying, remember we only banned corporal punishment in schools in 1986 here! Corporal punishment is still legal in many Caribbean schools, but that's the case still in 19 states in America, lets not forget.

Move on and forgive your gran if your Dad has. She misguidely thought she was doing the right thing.

Hello OP,

I’ve been where you are. I found out my grandfather used to abuse my grandmother. And another, even worse, awful family secret. It’s a shocker when you discover something like this out, it makes you evaluate then as a person and your relationship with them.

I don’t know all the details but the violence stopped and my grandmother forgave him, his DC, my parent and their siblings all forgave them and they went on and had a happy life and they loved each other and cared for each other.

Its not my place to start questioning that so I’ve never said or done anything, I’ve simply carried on as normal and I don’t think about it. It has taken some adjustment in my brain, but I think any other reaction would have upset the family.

I hope you find some closure. Xx

Sending you love. Slowly, we are breaking the childhood traumas and doing better with every new generation born. It takes a strong person to forgive and even understand.

My mum has a troubled relationship with my nanna, she still sees her and helps her regularly. I don't. The abuse that she used on my mum wasn't bad by any stretch, but the abuse that she turned a blind eye to (and still is an apologist for now) has absolutely had a massive impact on my mums life, and continues to even at 60.
My mum may feel like she needs a relationship with her , but I don't want somebody with that mindset in my life. I haven't bothered telling her, or making a stand about it, I just don't bother with her. Mum knows, and I'm not shy about it with the open family, and I'll happily go to family events, say hello, then just get on with my time with the rest of the family. If she caused a fuss and asked, I would quite happily tell her that shes treated my mum like shit over the years, and I don't think mum should put up with it, therefore I don't want to see it.

Your grandmother is living Evil. I would not want to have any contact with her after finding out such a thing.

Bless you @FingersInTheBin

I think I've gone the complete other way with my own DC, I feel guilty if I even raise my voice to them.

Do you think that your DF has forgiven or just submitted / dissociated?

Doesn’t look like he has any closure or healing - just still living in avoidance which is classic PTSD.

He sounds (unsurprisingly) still quite traumatised and possibly acting out in a hectic / heroic way - always on the move deep in a distracting crisis from his own terror. Some of us become workaholics others alcoholics to avoid/numb our pain.

I think you may have been impacted emotionally very deeply by your DFs closed-off state / emotional unavailability more than you realise.

I would concentrate on your own emotional well-being and the relationship you have with your DF and your own child.

Focus on reading and learning about intergenerational trauma to recognise where it has impacted you in areas you might not be aware of.

Maybe take this revelation, unease, disruption about your GM and oriented it instead to some good. Not sure there is any merit in taking her to task or going against your DF wishes - take time to process your feelings as this is profound. I wonder if there is any connection as to how you yourself ended up in an abusive relationship. Maybe you were taught to tolerate too much or compliance? This is very painful and messy but maybe some deeper understanding will come from this

I was a child in the 70s and I genuinely don't know how commonplace it was. I know that I was savagely beaten, I know that my teachers knew, and I know that nobody helped me. I don't know if any of my friends experienced the same, and I actually don't even know if my siblings did, just that I did.

It might or might not have been common to beat your kids, but it was definitely not done to talk about it.

OP, I do think you need to talk to someone about this, but probably someone outside of your family. I don't think it's uncommon for people who are cruel to defenceless children to behave very differently when they are themselves older and more vulnerable, but I don't think that often means that they are sorry or that they have changed. Your GM may just have known that any mistreatment of you would have consequences for her.

I understand the desire to hear her side, to confront her and to tell her what you think of her abuse of your father. Please don't do this- she will likely turn on either you or your father and aunt. They have suffered enough. Aside from finding someone to talk this through with, you don't need to do anything.

OP I went through this with my father. Him and my mum split when I was young, around 4 or 5, and me and my brother continued to have a relationship with him, seeing him one weekend a month. I really looked forward to it. He was a classic disney dad, right up until I was about 16 and the blinkers came off.

Anyway, I still loved him with all my heart and looked forward to the time I did spend with him. I then found out he was terribly abusive to my mum. Emotional and physical abuse.

To keep it short, yes it did change my relationship with my dad and we are no longer in contact, this was some years ago now. I do not regret that decision as I can now see he still isn't a very nice person. So i guess it really does depend on whether you can overlook the past and see who she is today. I couldn't look at my dad in the same way anymore, it was impossible.

Would some of this parental behaviour have been due to fear that the children wouldn’t have done well enough to escape poverty?
I mean, were they beaten for going out and not doing enough housework - or beaten because the parents feared pregnancy/drugs/not doing well at school?

The latter is excusable in the context of the time.

I am sorry you must be going through a horrible shock.
What I would do is to stop all contact with your grandmother. When she asks you why you haven't contacted her you tell, tell her in a sentence she is not the person you thought she was, and what she did with her children is totally unforgivable. I wouldn't elaborate because you won't get anywhere. There is no justification for cruelty.
I don't belive she is being forgiven for something like that. I think it is out of fear your wonderful dad and aunt say they forgave her. And covered the whole story for so long. I wouldn't engage with her again. Do it for your dad/aunt, they are (understandably) unable to do it themselves.

This exactly.

Its no real excuse, beating a child never is, but it whats they believed to keep their children on the 'straight and narrow'. They were damaged people.

I've had therapy , still struggle with my mother when she gets angry with me, it all surfaces back and a few times I stormed out as an adult. But weirdly, since being a grandma, she's this person I never saw as a child, or I've forgotten it, loving and attentive, patient and kind, my DC adore her. Its helped A LOT with the healing.

It's a tough one and honestly I don't know what I would do but it would definitely change my opinion of the person.

My Dad, whom is no longer here, was abusive to me and my siblings as kids. It wasn't a good childhood for us. Our children, ranging from young kids to almost adults, don't know that their grandfather abused us. They loved him very much and in all honestly he was a great grandfather. I think that given how great he was with my kids I wouldn't of wanted them to hate him. And I imagine it may be the same for your Dad.

Since my Dad died i have found out a bit more about what life was like for him when he was a young adult and I now understand, but do not dismiss, why he was abusive. There's a chance your gran was abused herself as a child or adult. That does not dismiss nor minimise what she done but maybe explains it slightly, the cycle of abuse.

Honestly, if possible, I would have a conversation with your Dad and if your really conflicted with how you feel towards her now then I would consider speaking it all through with a therapist.

Just some solidarity from me. My grandmother recently died and I was given some background info I didn't previously have about how awful she was to my dad, which explains his feelings towards her. It makes me feel dreadful, even though in the last decade or so I had gone LC anyway for my own reasons.

It's horrible.

I think it is complicated. A lot of people seem to have lower expectations from family members than they do of others. If (for example) a family friend was found to be emotionally and physically abusive to someone vulnerable most people would keep them away from their kids but when it is your own family member the rules are different, and I know there are so many complex reasons why that is. I think the rise in NC in families is because attitudes are changing and people are being judged more within their own families - and I don't think this is a bad thing. You need to do what is right for you.

I do have experience of something quite similar - but I found out after their death so it was just coming to terms with the differences in what I was shown - and what was behind it. And that took some time.

@nokidshere im so sorry to hear about your story, it sounds truly horrific..cant even begin to imagine, very very sorry 💐 this thread has been playing in my mind all day and brought back lots of issues for many surely..
Regarding whether there's a true, generic answer to dilemmas like op's, we'll have to agree to disagree. But I understand and respect where you are coming from.

I had a similar grandmother. In life I treated her with as much kindness as I could muster. When she died, the family asked me to take her funeral, because they didn’t want someone who didn’t know her to come swanning in and go on about how wonderful she had been. So, as politely as I could while being truthful, I did. That helped.

my mother is fully aware of the horrors that her own grandmother inflicted on her children. the stories are told like folklore at this point. my mother doesn't seem to resent the family history and considers it part of the tapestry of life.
simply put different time, different attitudes.

Take your dad’s lead on this.