How would you cope knowing this about your grandmother?

[elephantonacid]

Grandmother lives in a different city and I haven't seen her for a couple of years. Always had a lot of love for her and she's always been wonderful to me. As I've gotten older though and as the adults in my family have started talking to me more about things a child would be sheltered from, I've come to learn that the reason my father and aunt are so messed up psychologically is because my grandmother abused them horrifically.

They were terrified of her. She would beat them with wood and belt buckles. If they spoke out of tone they would be put in a cold bath. Locked in cupboards, kicked, starved etc. Obviously as a child I did not know this, but I always knew my dad struggled with his mental health and was quite closed off emotionally (not all the time, he's NEVER been abusive, he's a wonderful father).

I really struggle now having learnt that she abused someone I love so much to the extent that he still struggles a lot as an adult, and my aunt who I also adore is very psychologically damaged.

Suddenly feel a but numb to who was once my lovely grandma who could do no wrong.

My gm was an alcoholic, I know she treated my df and his brother appallingly although I was never given the full details. Df's brother took his own life at 19.
I know she ran off for a couple of years when df was 13 and his brother was 11. Df worked outside of school to feed, clothe and heat the house for him and his brother for two years (house was paid for). The Salvation Army gave them food and clothes to top up what df was able to earn.
I don't know whether df forgave his dm, he spent his whole life sorting out her messes, but he was well aware of her failings and interestingly married dm who was the complete opposite of his dm in every respect (gm hated her) I never liked her because she openly disliked dm (I learned about the past only when I was older) but I spoke to her respectfully as df would want.
Df made generous donations to the Salvation Army throughout his life and following his death I have continued to do the same. I see it as a positive to come from what happened to df and his brother.

Having found out similar about my grandmother, I went NC. My mum and her siblings have gone to therapy with GM and are at peace with it now, but I choose not to speak to her.

I understand your dad is very closed, mine is too. But in this situation I would talk to my father about it. I would say - this is what I have now learnt about your mother/childhood, and I’m having trouble processing it. How did you come to terms with it and you would you advise me to do?

Ok so a different country, not just a different city. And you didn’t see her in the months that she returned.

Really Op - quit navel gazing. Your dad has carved out a good life, and most importantly he doesn’t want to talk about it. So let it go. Just crack on not seeing her!

He’s carved out a very fulfilling career
He’s been a wonderful father

beyond the sad looking photo of when he was a child - how does he being “very messed up” manifest itself?

Id probably view her differently aswell-i dont agree though that your dad done the right thing letting yu see her what if she had abused you too-or maybe he warned her off?
its a diffucult situation

My paternal grandmother behaved in a similarly cruel and violent way towards my dad and his siblings. A decade or so ago told us he wouldn't object to us having a relationship with her but he was going to keep his distance for his mental health. I was horrified to learn what she did – which she tried to justify as 'that's what everyone did to keep their kids in line' – and I never saw or spoke to her again, even though she lived in the same town as us. No regrets, it was the right thing to do. We did go to her funeral, because my dad wanted to, and I remember sitting there and feeling nothing. She didn't deserve our tears.

Whatever you decide it sounds like your dad will be okay with. It's just whether you can stomach being around her.

He obviously wanted me and my siblings to have a relationship with our grandmother.

very far from “obviously” Op. i wouldn’t want this woman within a ten mile radius of
my children

This is too cruel, I have an almost 7 and almost 5 years old and cannot imagine the scene you have set. It is too cruel. Stop talking to her, cut all contact and let her rot and die a lonely death. People like this don't deserve any sympathy.

I am sorry for the little boy your dad was and the little girl your aunt was.

This must be so, so upsetting. Like some others on the thread I’m wondering who told you all of this? Were they also children at the time or adults? Was it is widely known this was happening, within your dad’s family? Whoever told you, what relationship do they now have with your granny?

I understand your preference not to talk to your dad but I really think it’s important that you do. For your own understanding of your family and to allow him to have a voice in all this too. And to deepen your understanding of his childhood and life, really.

My dh had a similar abusive childhood which he didn’t fully tell me about until we’d been married for twenty years! It was him going to therapy which allowed him to talk about the details to me (many which I found extremely distressing to hear).
Dh has a very complex relationship with them now, he is always there for them (Mil is recovering from cancer, FIL has Parkinson’s,) he’s even asked them to move closer to us so he can do more. I really don’t know how he does it, tbh I dislike them both very much for what they did to my dh, but I have in the past let him take the lead.
Recently though I’ve had to make him realise the effect it has on him, he often comes away for their home very angry with them, there’s things going on at the moment which mean they need more help, but I’ve persuaded dh to ask them to get paid help in, which they can easily afford, as the situation is really affecting him, and he has a good life to lead without being constantly reminded of his awful childhood.

Like your dad, my DH is the kindest person, he loves his DDs to bits, and they love him to bits, he’s definitely broken that cycle too.

She presumably has changed if you haven't seen the abusive behaviour.

My dad used to be a bit nasty but he's mellowed somewhat with age.

If the victims have forgiven then you should respect their choices, after all, it's about them, not you

A good observation. I have heard of this as well. In my own estimation it can go one of two ways when someone who has NPD get's very old. They either go much worse (like my own Dad) or they appear to improve. That makes it very difficult to reconcile what's going on if you didn't have prior knowledge. I would say that the difference here between how my dad behaves and the man in the care home is how much access both of them have to other people. In a care home there are lots of people around which equals fuel or narc supply. My dad is actually very isolated and his behaviour is escalating. Again, it's fuel or energy.

OP. I am sorry. Must have been a tremendous shock to the system. There is zero point confronting your gran because you will be hit by the devils' pitch-fork. Denial or deflection. Essentially, you will never get a straight answer.

I really recommend H G Tudor's book, 'Fuel' to understand how and why certain people behave the way they do. NPD is now out of control in our society and is threatening everything. You sound to me like a decent and kind individual. It will not only hep you resolve the dynamic with your gran (ie NC or a very low NC) and also resolve why your father behaved the way that he did.

It does very much bare repeating that people who are abused are often more frightened of other peoples' reactions than the abuse itself. We are simply not believed by a very significant minority. Guess who don't believe us? The abusers.

I didn’t see the part about making him hold his younger sister down to be beaten or be beaten himself.
If this is true it goes beyond being young and tired and the spare the rod and spoil the child mentality that was prevalent at the time. Imo this is very nasty behaviour. She was trying to drive a wedge between the two children. If I knew that to be true about someone I couldn’t overlook it.

I would do this too.
I also wonder about mental health, abusive behaviour in your Grandmother’s childhood etc.
I knew someone with an abusive mother, but her Mum had been sexually abused in childhood, and had serious mental health issues as a consequence. As your father allowed you a relationship with her, and that has been a kind one, I wonder if she deeply regrets how she treated her children. I have a friend whose father was like this, really terrible. As an adult he had a very good relationship with him, his father completely changed as he got older, possibly he addressed the reasons for his horrendous behaviour, but for whatever reason he became an easy going man, who was a nice grandfather. I was shocked, as I met my friend before this happened. My friend is a very forgiving man, and is happy that things changed.

Without wanting to go into too much detail: I have had a similar thing. I strongly suspect my lovely granddad abused his children in some way - they all referred to having Upsetting Childhoods - and this is probably why my dad abused me. In my case I didn't find this out until after he was dead but I just wanted to say I've been there and it is really destabilising and awful.

I'd cut off contact. Nasty

This. There is extent of abuse here that goes to cruelty and meanness beyond the times. Even if her husband abused her, taking it out on defenseless children shows evil character under the surface. There's no excuse here. She must've known what she was doing. I couldn't look at her or be near her. Has she ever been held accountable?

It's a hard one. On the one hand you don't want to open old wounds for your dad, on the other hand you may feel this woman must be confronted. I'd try gently talking to your dad op, perhaps he needs the conversation with a safe, loved, trusted daughter and doesn't know it. I'd definitely not see her anymore, and I'm not advising you to, but I'd confront her, but that's just how I am...

My grandfather abused all but one (the intelligent child) of his children. My father passed that on. My grandfather also mentally (and maybe physically I don't know) abused my grandmother too. He was a nasty fucker. He didn't like me either 🤷🏻‍♀️ two of my siblings were ok to go there anytime. He treated me with contempt and I didn't understand it. I do now. I was suffering from abuse and was an angry child.
Still his problem, maybe he realised he'd passed that shit on.
If this is something you recently discovered and up until that point had a loving relationship with her then that will be a very difficult situation to be in. I really don't know what I would do. It's unfortunate you don't think your father is open to a conversation.
Very sad for you.
But your father sounds like a LEGEND 💪🌟

This.
I think it would really hurt your dad if you questioned your gm but at the same time it’s hard for you to still see her as a loving, caring person.
Maybe distance yourself from her as much as you comfortably can.

I was only slightly physically abused by my DP's so it's a bit different to your experience OP, but my DP's (due to the circumstances they exposed me to and the lack of supervision they chose in their parenting) meant that decisions they made directly led to me experience CSA for a long period of my childhood.

I don't know how your Dad would feel but from my POV I would really dislike my DC trying to talk to me about my childhood (I have fiercely protected them from the very adult themes of my childhood). It isn't really my DC's job to understand or sympathise or empathise with me. I am their Mum. My trauma is not theirs to deal with. I understand that you might have strong feelings on it OP but if you take away your Dad's autonomy and power on this it isn't the kindness you think it is. I understand you might want to defend him or show him that you have taken him seriously, but again from my POV, people who have found out, reacted and took it upon themselves to take up my 'cause' have done more harm than good. Often it felt that they were doing it to make themselves feel better and less shocked instead of thinking what was best for me. Dredging up painful memories and opening up old wounds is extremely difficult for people with trauma. I would not advocate doing that without express permission tbh.

This. And also respect their decision not to talk about it.

In your shoes I woudn't try to talk to your Grandmother about it.
she will likely just deny it all. Your Father might feel upset about that too.
You could try to talk to him about it. Or your Aunt.
But they might still try to shield you from it (they have done amazingly well doing this so far & sound like extraordinary people).
But this leaves you with a lot of processing to do.
I'd find a decent counsellor if you can (keep trying if you don't like the 1st one).
You need time & space to grieve the loss of the Grandmother you thought you had. Whether you can '/ wish to preserve your separate relationship with her is something you need time to think through perhaps?