How would you cope knowing this about your grandmother?

[elephantonacid]

Grandmother lives in a different city and I haven't seen her for a couple of years. Always had a lot of love for her and she's always been wonderful to me. As I've gotten older though and as the adults in my family have started talking to me more about things a child would be sheltered from, I've come to learn that the reason my father and aunt are so messed up psychologically is because my grandmother abused them horrifically.

They were terrified of her. She would beat them with wood and belt buckles. If they spoke out of tone they would be put in a cold bath. Locked in cupboards, kicked, starved etc. Obviously as a child I did not know this, but I always knew my dad struggled with his mental health and was quite closed off emotionally (not all the time, he's NEVER been abusive, he's a wonderful father).

I really struggle now having learnt that she abused someone I love so much to the extent that he still struggles a lot as an adult, and my aunt who I also adore is very psychologically damaged.

Suddenly feel a but numb to who was once my lovely grandma who could do no wrong.

One set of grandparents were both abusive to one of my parents, so I know about the shock OP, although I found out as a teenager so still relatively young. I did still go to see my grandmother, as my grandfather had died before I was born, but only once a year when I was visiting other relatives. I went to her funeral, and basically kept my own feelings at bay and distanced myself emotionally. I chose to instead make everything a lot easier for my parent, and did not bring it up with my Gran ever, although I also did not pretend that I loved her, which I did not anymore. I was just polite and visited so as not to make it obvious and awkward for my parent.

I saw my job as 100% supporting the parent who had been abused, which included just listening to them, being there for them. My parent chose to understand and forgive, in a complicated way that I struggle to understand myself, they felt more anger with my grandmother who was not as bad as my grandfather for example. BUT I did not question their own reaction, and I always respected that it was THEIR abuse and their way of handling it. My parent did not abuse me, and broke the cycle, and I have told her a million times how great they are.

One thing I did find is that I did realize that my upbringing wasn’t as solid as I thought it was, not abuse or neglect but my parent struggled, and I grew up too fast and took on too much responsibility too young. However I can see my parent did the absolute best that they could, within their own circumstances, and so I will never bring this up, their life was hard enough. I do though bring my children up in a different way, hopefully finally completely breaking the cycle so that my kids didn’t even have to grow up fast, they could just be kids.

IhearyouClemFandango Bit nitpicky and don't know if you're just looking for fights but by definition if someone is being abusive they are not mentally well. Healthy people don't abuse others. She was also in an abusive relationship herself which would have made parenting a nightmare.

Not sure if it makes a difference that she's from Trinidad and was born and raised there. I know very little about the culture.

Not at all, but you said contraception etc was being withheld…which the OP hasn’t said at all. Not sure how pointing that out is ‘looking for a fight’ tbh.

It wasn't commonplace and when people hear about smacking, they think of smacking a toddler's hand in fear, when they can see that they're about to run onto a road or something.

The type of abuse that the OP's lovely Dad experienced is very different to smacking. You don't have to have committed a crime. You live on your wits to avoid the next outburst.

The abuse of me was constant and brutal. Your entire life is lived in fear. You function on a primordial level of survival. Very often, divisions are made between siblings and the other parent. It's deliberate and horrendous. Some survive it, some don't.

While I know that you think your Dad wants you to have a relationship with your grandmother, if he knew that that relationship was causing you stress, he would not want you to.

People like that have a way of manipulating to their dying day.

In terms of practically what I'd do, I'd probably write a letter. I'd not get too much into details but something along the lines of:

Dear Grandma

I recently found out some things about Dad and Auntie XXX's childhood which have shocked and upset me deeply. Whilst I understand that there may have been factors that influenced you and contributed to what happened, this is all new to me and I need some time to process it. I still love you very much but I don't yet know how or if I will be able to reconcile everything.

I would be open to talking to you about it but I don't want to upset my Dad who has never been anything than wonderful to me.

Best wishes
OP

Do not contact your grandmother full stop. But especially without your father’s knowledge.

OK, ok, don't know that contraception was being withheld, I will give you that, but if he's in his early sixties then we are talking about him being born in about 1960 and I'm not sure that women had quite so much control over their fertility back then, given that the Pill was first made available in 1960.

In terms of what women's role was expected to be and how they were expected to behave and what kinds of hopes they could have for their lives it was a very different time.

I'm not saying what she did was excusable. I'm saying that thinking about the world she grew up in might make it easier to empathise, if not forgive. As her father has done. I think that may be the most peaceful path forward for the OP.

I’d probably put my dads feelings first.

he wanted to give you a shot at having a “lovely grandma” which you did, until you learned the truth. That was big of him.

It possibly explains it somewhat if she came from a long line of slavery generations back (the gift that keeps on giving), but it doesn't excuse it.

Having come from abuse myself, I knew enough to know NOT to do what was done to me. I think people can just simply be cunts.

Op, I agree with you that it was horrible and there is no justification.

Your father has a big heart to be able to forgive this and not carry resentment. You should not force yourself to behave in certain way, do what you feel naturally. There is no right or wrong here.

I was incredibly close to my nan. She looked after me when I was little so my (single) mum could work, and she was like a second parent.

My mum is quite messed up because of her childhood. She was one of eight children raised in a three-bed house and didn't get an adequate share of love and attention. She can't show physical affection and has literally never hugged me, took until I was in my 30s for her to say she loved me.

I had a fairly messed up childhood because of it. I don't hold it against either of them; they both did the best with what they had.

Your situation is different. Beating and starving a child takes deliberate thought, rather than being physically unable to give enough time or emotionally unable to show affection. I'd find it a lot harder to forgive that.

Yes I agree - I am slightly older than OP's father and do not recognise much of this background. There was contraception, just not the pill (till later) - my mother told me they had to take "double precautions" which I assume would be condoms and a contraceptive cap or similar. Physical punishment in the home wasn't the norm, certainly where I lived, although it did exist in schools.

Whatever the reasons she had for behaving like this, I agree with PP that to question her or make a point of ignoring her now would only make things worse for your Dad, but I certainly wouldn't be looking to see her separately from him or from the usual family occasions.

@nokidshere , people are different, cultures are different and there's no one binary generic answer anyone here including me and you can give here with absolute certainty... I know in the UK there's the stiff upper lip mentality and keep calm and carry on. I do understand it, but am not like that, and one should accept many others aren't either. Where I'm from people would prefer bringing out in the open by default and that's also not always the best way. Some people may prefer not to open up old wounds, others may feel talking helps.

I disagree. This isn't about culture it's about her dad having not told her and making it clear to people he knows that he doesn't want to talk about it.

It doesn't matter if he's from somewhere that discusses such things or somewhere that doesn't, if he had wanted her to know he would have told her already. The decision to bring it up is his alone, it's not for his daughter to force him to remember or talk about.

My children have a sanitised version of my childhood. They do not need to know that as a 7yr old I was dragged out of bed in the middle of the night and made to sit and watch my mother being beaten and kicked half to death (and that was one of the less traumatic bits) why would they need to know that? What are they going to do with that information? They know my dad was horrible and that's all they need to know. If they came and said 'we have heard x from x tell us more' I would still not give them details, it's my trauma not theirs and there is no value in them knowing the details, ever.

I don't disagree that these things sometimes need to be out in the open but that's for the person who suffered the trauma to decide if and when, not anyone else.

No confrontation but also no relationship. I'd not confront out of respect for your father's desire not to talk about it. It's not fair on him or your aunt to drag this up. That kind of action would have to come from them, in my opinion.

Hi OP, I have had basically the same experience. It's shocking and disorientating to find out this kind of thing.

I have had many years to process this about my family, and my perspective now is that my Grandma must have had an awful time of it as a child too, and certainly a frustrated life as a housewife and mother. I even suspect she was sexually abused by her uncle. She did the best she could in her specific circumstances, and my dad and uncles had a terrible childhood with far reaching consequences.

I think finding compassion for all involved is the best way to make peace within yourself. Your Grandma was a wonderful grandmother to you, and an abusive mother to your dad. She is both of those people. We are all complex products of our whole experience, no person is wholly good or wholly bad.

Your dad has managed to break the cycle of abuse which is admirable. How amazing that you have had no idea until now what the family history was. It's right and appropriate that you feel so sad for your dad as a child, but he is a grown man with a happy life - he has saved himself, and you do not need to save him or be on his 'side'. He is also a product of his experience.

In a nutshell, never judge a person until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Forgive Grandma, it is the way to peace.

That must be a horrible shock OP, I'm so sorry. It must shake the view of everything you've known.

Can I just say what an incredible father you have. To be a wonderful father himself and to have completely insulated you from the truth for all these years makes him a really special man.

If it were me (just my own opinion), I'd cut her off on the spot and never speak to her again.

That's tough, OP. It sounds like if you said anything to your gran or broke contact with her, it would hurt your dad.

I might be tempted to ask her about what kind of a mother she thought she was. She might be sorry now for how she raised her children. You could make an opening for her to talk about that, if you felt so inclined.

Ultimately, you can't forgive her or condemn her on your dad's behalf. But you can decide what kind of a relationship you want with her, how much you trust her, and how much access she has to your and your children's lives. You don't have to be unkind, but you can withdraw as much as you feel appropriate.

Could you maybe ask your grandmother about this?

Yeah, don't do this.

She either have convenient amnesia, or deny or minimise or justify or say "I did what I thought was right at the time". "It was normal at the time".

The most soul destroying thing to hear as the survivor.

Yes your father has done a remarkable job on himself to forgive his mother - her behaviour was insane and cruel. Yes it will be linked to how she was parented or not.
However, your father will have been damaged by his upbringing. My siblings and I experienced a traumatic child hood. We are certainly all damaged in some ways from psychosis to alcoholism to suicide. I most certainly blame my father. We where taught not to trust and not to feel. You could not need in that environment. I’ve done well considering but I struggle with relationships mainly men.
I could not have anything to do with your grand mother unless she has made amends to your Dad and sought therapy or attended a 12 step group such as Adult children of alcoholics AND dysfunctional families. You will be in shock - the grand mother you loved treating her own child in that way.
My father was pleasant to most adults he engaged with - the family secrets where kept with the don’t talk don’t trust and don’t feel.
Your dad has broken the chain of abuse - how wonderful.- You need time to process this and come to your own conclusion.🌺

Without going into detail, when I found out something similar, I just withdrew from my Nanna. My heart breaks for my mum, and even though I can see that my Nanna had as tough a time from her own mother, I just can’t forgive her. My poor mum suffered so much, but she tried very hard to do her best by her children, she isn’t perfect but she did break the cycle of generational trauma.

You say you haven't seen her for a couple of years so it doesn't sound like you're very close anyway.

Just leave it. You can reduce contact (what little there is) without explaining why.

This isn't your story or your experience. If your Dad has managed to forgive her, then don't make it about you and drag it all back up again.

I had a very abusive mother, I haven't forgiven her and I don't think I will. Tbh lots of things in life can be forgiven for me but not a campaign of abuse. I've not seen her in many years. So I appreciate that I'm not impartial here as it's so personal to me but I wouldn't be to have a relationship with a history of abusive behaviour.

This is what I am trying to do myself. I'm not abusive but I know my abuse has lead to certain emotional responses. Like I know I'm not good at outwardly expressing emotion etc. Well done to your mum I know how tough it is 💜