To finally want Scotland to now LEAVE the UK

[Ndd135632]

Am looking at this new gender bill being debated in Scotland in shock and horror. I just think it is a barbaric attack on women's safety and rights plus kids safeguarding. What on earth is happening Scotland?

Men being allowed to identify as women with no medical assessment and after only 3 months of ‘living as a woman’ - whatever that means. Wearing high heels and lipstick? Certainly they will still have their tackle intact.

Then being able to enter our changing rooms and bathrooms, take our company board places and sports prizes, skew the gender pay gap data and crime data, give intimate care to our vulnerable disabled daughters and elderly mothers. No surprise which type of men will be attracted using this new law to identify as women. Let me spell it out - the violent depraved ones who want to access women and girls.

And voted through yesterday - allowing convicted male rapists to identify as women and enter womens prisons.

And on top of all this - lowering the age of transition from 18 to 16… where is this age lowering coming from I wonder….surely not something more sinister…

To top of off Scotland has deliberately ignored the Cass Report and NHS England on safeguarding teenagers and so is carrying on giving vulnerable teenagers irreversible puberty blockers and breast binders behind parents backs.

And the icing on the cake - when a woman dares to speak out and wear a scarf with the colours of the suffragettes - she gets thrown out of parliament. I feel Scotland has gone back 100 years.

I am scared now this Scottish loophole in law will enter the UK as a whole.

@Askinforabaskin I like your optimism but much of what you say is not what is happening or what the science says.

Firstly the vast majority of trans people do not have the required surgery. Yes many more will have hormone treatment. But even if they DO (and this new self id law makes this even more unlikely they will have surgery or hormone treatment) the impact of male puberty is NOT negated by hormone therapy alone. That is scientific FACT. What I don’t understand is why you think your opinion is better than the science. I don’t get that.

Secondly will this actually happen. Well it already is! And that’s even BEFORE self id. There are many sports cases now - see Lia Thomas and Emily Bridges as the latest scandals. Remember this is not just about taking another woman’s sports prize. This is also about taking their places in the race, their scholarships that you win by competing and winning, plus the indignity of being naked in a swim changing room putting on your race suit which means you are naked for 15 minutes as you peel it on, next to a 6 foot 4 male complete with tackle. Listen the the women who have been through this.

Then about jobs etc - well we have a man called Eddie Izzard competing to take an MP position from a Yemenese born Sheffield local who has been fighting for that community for years. But it’s fine because Eddie is in girl mode when he puts his heels on - which is handy to get a job as an MP - but kicks those heels off to get a film part - more money. Shame the women and girls in Iran can simply kick off their high heels to stop being murdered.

Its already happened and we are only at the thin end of the wedge.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/87c38230-677e-11ed-9c3b-2d9184d0076f?shareToken=3baf258bc51be4f648776ab586ebefcb

great piece in The Times yesterday clearly laying out the madness and why it may be happening in Scotland.

Trans women are not and never will be real women. They will always be men. There is nothing in the world that will change that fact.
OP what's happening in Scotland is awful and in no way do I want it here. Its absolute madness

What’s your point? OP’s concern is perfectly valid. As the law currently stands it’s likely that English institutions would need to recognise any GRCs granted in Scotland as carrying equal legal weight with those granted here under more rigorous processes. It’s self ID in the U.K. via the back door with only a tiny number or ideologically and politically motivated SMPs voting on it. Completely in democratic and wrong, and legally very hard to reverse.
The OP I’d still BU in the sense that Scotland leaving the Union won’t help.

i’m not kept awake at night by the thought that my 1 yr old might get knocked off a sports team by a biological male either, but that doesn’t mean I can’t see that it’s very wrong for girls to have to make space for trans women in sports at the expense of their personal success and safety.
And what does worry me, much much more, is the infiltration of trans ideology into schools. I don’t want my children — any children, actually — to be taught that enjoying stereotypically opposite sex toys, colours, clothes or activities is incompatible with being the sex they were born. I don’t want them fed this ‘wrong body’ line.
i don’t want my daughter to be told if there’s someone she perceives to be a man or boy in the bathroom or changing room that this is safe and ok because regardless of what her eyes and instincts tell her he might actually be a girl on the inside. That message is not safe and will erode the boundaries and instincts girls need to keep themselves safe. This is not to say I think trans women are predatory. It is to say that some men and predatory and these men may take advantage — are already doing so — of an environment in which male bodied and male presenting people can enter female spaces unchallenged.
it worries me that organisations may not follow proper safeguarding procedure with regard to trans women and girls, and may not tell parents that this is happening. I do not want my daughter going on an overnight trip with school and having to share a room with a male child (or risk being accused of transphobia if she protests). I don’t want her being supervised in a changing room by a trans woman who may have made zero concessions to ‘womanhood’ besides calling herself Sally and wearing a skirt for three months while living in Dundee. It is not safe for all the reasons outlined above, regardless of whether Sally herself is earnestly and authentically trans. Because Sally might be authentically trans but still a predator. Sally might be inauthentically trans and a predator. Or Sally might be authentically trans and perfectly safe around children but her presence is still teaching our daughters a bad lesson about safety and boundaries when it comes to male bodied people. Our daughters deserve better than to be put at risk in this way.
Anyone who takes part in this debate without acknowledging the appalling injustice of rapists being housed alongside women in prisons is not rational or humane. It’s wrong. It’s obviously wrong. The same goes for sex offenders evading notice by getting GRCs.
and finally, to the poster who said that not wanting trans women in female spaces is akin to not wanting black people in white spaces: stop with your racist false equivalency right now. Black people are not meaningfully different from white people in any way whatsoever. Male people are meaningfully different from female people in lots of ways. It is not at all the same and it’s a morally and intellectually bankrupt comparison.

I am currently pregnant with a girl, and worrying about her coming second to a trans girl in a sporting event hadn’t even crossed my mind. I doubt it crosses the mind of very many parents at all.

If she grows up to enjoy sport you will probably change your mind.

My daughter is 13 and plays cricket for the County. It is highly selective for the girls to be picked to represent the county.

She plays with boys at club level who are no where near good enough to play boys county cricket. By 13 they are stronger and sheer strength alone means that they mostly bowl faster and have more power to hit more boundary balls.

If those boys, who are fairly average cricketers, were to turn up to the county trials on the basis of self ID as girls many of the girls would be displaced.

There is no way that that is fair.

County cricket is trans inclusive though, I have seen a trans boy play on the girls cricket team in another county.

Don't be so quick to throw away the rights of girls like your daughter to excel in their sport.

@RoseAndGeranium your post highlights why everyone should be worried about this ideology.

It’s so easy and convenient for people to sweep this debate over there somewhere because it won’t affect me. Firstly it starts out with - well it’s only a few trans people this affects. Then the penny drops that actually this may affect women. Then hmmmm maybe children who are saying they are in the wrong body because they don’t conform to sexist stereotypes. Then actually this is affecting our primary kids who are being taught this new religious belief in schools and being sexualised at a young age. Then ouch yes maybe it is affecting my elderly mother. Or my friend who was raped and now can’t talk about it in a single sex space. And then as you quite rightly say - the penny may finally drop that this is removing the very boundaries that keep women and girls safe.

My fear is that laws will be passed why people make this journey and once they have finally made it - it’s too late. Nicola wants this bill shoehorned through before Xmas. No debate. Get it through by any means.

County cricket is trans inclusive though, I have seen a trans boy play on the girls cricket team in another county.

I just want to add something here. I am assuming this person does not take testosterone as they are so young. I don't know what the position is when they are old enough if they decide to.

Also I do know that a transgender cricketer MtoF won Kent Cricketer of the year so theoretically a self IDing boy probably could rock up and displace a girl.

I've just signed the petition and also written to my MSPs. I want Scottish Independence and in an Independent Scotland the SNP will be redundant. I usually vote Scottish Greens but I'm torn now, they seem to hate women and children between this new bill and they're stance on teachers and children during covid. Women have been screwed over enough without now being political pawns.

County cricket is trans inclusive though, I have seen a trans boy play on the girls cricket team in another county.

When males take the places of females, it is not inclusive. It is exclusive of females of whatever age or level of competition. Women and girls lose out which is unfair to us.

Yes I agree.

But I don't have a problem with a girl who identifies as a boy or non binary being on a girls team so long as they are not taking testosterone (but I think that's banned anyway).

For those saying that it's all fair for trans men to compete against women.

The women's 100m record was set in 1988. The time involved, apparently heavily wind assisted, would rank you joint 6,853rd in the men's ranks.

Live as you want, fine, but you can't have what you want at the expense of others.

It is fair for trans men to compete against women so long as they are not receiving hormonal therapy because trans men are biologically female (that is, they identify as men but are physically women). It is not fair for trans women to compete against women because trans women were born male and have in almost all cases been through puberty as males. This means that, regardless of the reduction in performance they may experience whilst receiving hormone therapy, they still enjoy the greater heart size and muscle strength and more efficient (for running) pelvic positioning that male puberty produces in the human body.

I did mean trans women.

Trans men v women. As you say.

AFAIK trans men can compete against men under IOC rules. Not as there are many takers surprisingly enough.

AFAIK trans men can compete against men under IOC rules. Not as there are many takers surprisingly enough.

Few, if any, would qualify because transmen are female and do not have the physical advantages of men which will come a no surprise to anyone. They will not be able to compete if they are taking testosterone because that would be "doping".

But I don't have a problem with a girl who identifies as a boy or non binary being on a girls team so long as they are not taking testosterone (but I think that's banned anyway).

Of course not. The 'girls' category is simply age and sex - it would be genuinely transphobic to ban any female just for being gender nonconforming. (obviously if they take T they're excluding themselves).

And interestingly it may actually exclude my daughter as, although she doesn't identify as trans, she is non gender conforming and has been asked if she is trans by people who think girls should look and act in certain ways!

She may think her new laws will.separate us from the UK but that would only work if the new laws were something Scots wanted. And they don't.
In addition most.people in Scotland aren't really aware of what is going on here and the very real dangers that women and children face. All will become clear to them in the near future.