to ask views on the 5-year-old cycling and Sajid Javid video?

[allswellthatends]

Maybe this has been debated to death already because the story came out Nov 11 but it's not showing up on search here. A dad's helmet camera catches a driver passing his 5yo by what he felt was too close, and Sajid Javid and Jeremy Vine got into a disagreement about what the driver should have done.

I live in London and I think (hope) I'm very good with cyclists if only because I'm not usually in a rush. Also I cycle, and my children cycle more. And I'm used to the countryside rule of not coming too close to horse riders . In this particular case, a small child, I would have stopped completely or slowed to a crawl.

Still, London roads are very narrow, traffic is generally quite slow-moving anyway, and so observing a 1.5m distance isn't always practical. It seemed to me that it also makes a difference if the driver is coming towards the cyclist (who can therefore see the car) or from behind (which as a cyclist I find much more unnerving). The type of cyclist in general: 20-35 year-old racing steadily, I'm less worried than with a shaky-ish person on a heavy rental bike; I'll stop for a cyclist panting uphill. I totally get why my fellow-cyclists don't always stop for red lights: sometimes it's safer to go first while the cars are forced to stop, and also it's bad to lose your momentum and your balance. Then again I LOATHE those cargo bikes where parents move very slowly in a vehicle that blocks the full road, with precious cargo, but commonly at school/work rush hour. And cyclists who don't wear reflective gear and lights at night are idiots IMHO. (Actually so are pedestrians. Don't you folks realise that even to the most careful driver you're basically invisible?)

I kind of want to hear some thoughtful real-world practices from my fellow drivers and cyclists and parents.

I feel quite sorry for you. You are clearly welded to the idea that your kids are safe on busy roads and it doesn't matter how many pages of posts that tell you otherwise. Your view is concrete and unshakable!

So good luck! Stay safe and pray to the angels or whoever. I feel deeply sorry for your children, they are unlucky they have such irresponsible, careless parents that would rather score points than take care of them.

Take care it is wild out there!!! 😉

Nah, I'm just pointing out the complete shite you are talking. No need to feel sorry for me; I'm right, you're not.

So you wouldn't have any exposure regardless of mode of transport?

You're following an odd logic here

Never leaving the house would explain why she never sees a car encroaching on the pavement.

I take my kids to school in the cargo bike, albeit all along 20mph residential roads with cars parked both sides (so no cars tend to travel very fast, as they have to frequently to give way to cars coming from the other direction).

@Venetiaparties I find your assertion that I do not love my children or care for their safety, deeply offensive. It's also very clear that you do not have a clue about what you are talking about. Firstly helmets. It really depends on the style of the cargo bike as to whether helmets are appropriate or not. Some cargo bikes have high backed seats and incorporate a roll cage. In this circumstance a helmet would force the child's head into an unnatural position which might be more dangerous in the event of a collision. For open box style bikes without a roll cage, helmets are probably advisable. Secondly, air pollution - several studies have shown that you are exposed to more pollutants whilst travelling inside a car, than cycling on the road (something to do with the air flow). And if you are very worried about air pollution why are you driving short distances?! It's like people complaining about crowds during lockdown, when they are part of that crowd! 😂 Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution.

There's also that little mess known as 'climate change' that you and I are leaving for our kids to sort out in the future. No one is perfect on this front, and we all could do much more. But if someone is trying to make a positive change, like cycling to school instead of driving, we should be cheering them on, not knocking them down.

The pollution thing is also a red herring as that's not something that can be easily avoided if you don't live in the country, walking, driving, riding, you're exposed to it. Not everyone can just up and move to a rural area

@ArialAnna Amen! I think that user is basically just trolling. Thank you for doing your bit to make our roads safer and less congested and for modelling good habits and the benefits of an active lifestyle for your children.

If cars were only used when actually necessary our communities would be much more pleasant for everyone, including those who genuinely do need to use cars and other motor vehicles.

This,

I cringe inside when I see little kids on busy city roads in these cargo bikes.
Why would you trust other road users to be safe around your most precious beings?
What if an accident happened? They would stand no chance.
I can't get my head around it

I jump the red light on my bike at certain junctions - not where there are pedestrians crossing - but sometimes it is much safer to do so. In fact, at some junctions in my city they have added new lights to say cyclists can go when it's still red for cars in recognition of this fact.

There is one big four way junction. The pedestrians cross on the green man and the cars are held on red until they've finished crossing. This is to stop cars from turning left and hitting them whilst they're crossing. But there are no pedestrians crossing if you're going straight on.

I always go straight on while the pedestrians are crossing to the left and the light is red for cars. If you wait for the lights to go green before you set off on your bike you get a big rush of cars behind you on a very narrow bit of road and you have nowhere to go unless you get a head start.

In some other countries they let cars turn left at red lights. Mind blowing for UK drivers but weirdly they manage it without everyone dying all the time.

imo red lights should be a stop line for bikes, rather than being held at the signal you should have to stop and then proceed with caution

Not all cycle lanes are fit for purpose.

I don't cycle in the one of the cycle lanes on my way to work because it goes past five pubs and is always chock full of glass. It's safer to be on the road.

Segregated cycle lanes are generally preferable but at this time of year they are puddles and leaves and the divider means that street sweeper machines can't clean them

Perhaps, but no one is talking about quiet country roads? It's about built up busy areas

Why on earth would I cheer you on? It is such a dangerous and deadly choice to make for a child of any age. We do cycle alot, but not on the roads, never on the roads. We also ride horses, again never ever on the roads.

You can't change reality - nor can you hope that at some point your sacrifice is going to make the slightest bit of different to climate change when you consider the output of even singular countries like the US or China. Your effort is like a tiny drop in the ocean, and as endearing as it is to be virtual signalling your support for the climate as you strap your kids into a death trap, you may end up paying the ultimate price in doing so.

Why are you happy to take the risk with your precious children?
How can you possibly trust that people are always going to do the right thing when it comes to driving within the speed limits and safely near them?

I would love to imagine I can change the world if I cycle everywhere tomorrow, even if we ALL cycled in the UK everywhere tomorrow it would make no difference at all. They are the facts, because the biggest polluters will make no changes at all.

You would be better to feed your children a vegetarian diet, consider buying an electric car and keep the cycling for weekends only around cycle paths to make the same difference to the climate - rather than the extraordinary risk you are taking with your children's lives now.

**difference to

Yes, the driver could have stopped, but so could the cyclist.

I wouldn't have had my five year old riding a bike in the road.

I think the parent was wrong and put his child at risk to prove a point.

I'm right, you're not

Did you seriously just post that!!! 😂
Are you ten years old??

Righto!
As I said, I feel (very) sorry for your kids......

i’ll be honest. It is crazy and scary. The children have education days with lorries, the lack of visibility is scary.

You want your children to go out on their bikes, meet their mates, you want them to be able to walk to school. But frankly, it’s just not safe.

my teens cycle on the pavement, they dismount and walk round the few pedestrians they meet. We don’t have many cycle lanes, those we do have are on the pavement (which arguably is safer).

YYY to the 'snake pit' comment.

The dad is a complete tool.

Just about sums it up, math! And it’s always a dad!

What mother allows her dh to take their little child into that situation though? Over my dead body would any child of mine be in that position. What an idiot for risking his child in that way. I can't imagine his family and wife's response when they saw the footage.

You can't change reality - nor can you hope that at some point your sacrifice is going to make the slightest bit of different to climate change when you consider the output of even singular countries like the US or China. Your effort is like a tiny drop in the ocean, and as endearing as it is to be virtual signalling your support for the climate as you strap your kids into a death trap, you may end up paying the ultimate price in doing so.

With that attitude, nothing is going to change. So your answer is we all give up and to hell with it?! Accept rising sea levels / increasing forest fires / heatwaves / flooding / increased mass immigration and social chaos with people flocking out of increasing unhabitable areas? Just because it all seems a bit hard and overwhelming to try and stop it? And geez, you say I'm the irresponsible parent?

And do you actually have any evidence cargo bikes are death traps?! Like actual statistics? Or is this based on your perception of that looks a bit dangerous, so therefore it must be? Also I find it hilarious that you say cargo bikes are too dangerous when you say you horse ride - which is one of the most risky activities you can do. I believe its statistically more dangerous than skiing and motorcycling. Look it up before you start criticising other parents choices.

Just a statement of fact.

And I don't want or need you to feel sorry for my kids. They are learning to use the road responsibly rather than being locked in a car by a misguided, ill-informed ignoramus.

Venetiaparties, cars are the real death trap, statistically

It's a 'dangerous and deadly choice' to drive kids everywhere