to ask views on the 5-year-old cycling and Sajid Javid video?

[allswellthatends]

Maybe this has been debated to death already because the story came out Nov 11 but it's not showing up on search here. A dad's helmet camera catches a driver passing his 5yo by what he felt was too close, and Sajid Javid and Jeremy Vine got into a disagreement about what the driver should have done.

I live in London and I think (hope) I'm very good with cyclists if only because I'm not usually in a rush. Also I cycle, and my children cycle more. And I'm used to the countryside rule of not coming too close to horse riders . In this particular case, a small child, I would have stopped completely or slowed to a crawl.

Still, London roads are very narrow, traffic is generally quite slow-moving anyway, and so observing a 1.5m distance isn't always practical. It seemed to me that it also makes a difference if the driver is coming towards the cyclist (who can therefore see the car) or from behind (which as a cyclist I find much more unnerving). The type of cyclist in general: 20-35 year-old racing steadily, I'm less worried than with a shaky-ish person on a heavy rental bike; I'll stop for a cyclist panting uphill. I totally get why my fellow-cyclists don't always stop for red lights: sometimes it's safer to go first while the cars are forced to stop, and also it's bad to lose your momentum and your balance. Then again I LOATHE those cargo bikes where parents move very slowly in a vehicle that blocks the full road, with precious cargo, but commonly at school/work rush hour. And cyclists who don't wear reflective gear and lights at night are idiots IMHO. (Actually so are pedestrians. Don't you folks realise that even to the most careful driver you're basically invisible?)

I kind of want to hear some thoughtful real-world practices from my fellow drivers and cyclists and parents.

Surely this is because they are taking their kids to school, OP? Much better for all of us they are transporting their kids on a bike rather than a car.

Exactly, it's illogical to want more cars on the road if you're already annoyed about being held up by bikes.

i would have thought it best to have the dad being two a breast with the kid.

Surely the dad would have to be on the other side of the road for that though due to car doors on the left.

It made me wince watching the video.

It just made the little boy look so vunerable. Just because legally he 'could' be on the road doesn't mean he 'should'.

Cycling in London is lethal. I'd want my 5 year old on the pavement.

Meanwhile on a cycling forum, someone is asking why do cars insist on overtaking cyclists at any cost when they're going to come to a stop soon at the next set of lights...

I ride my cargo bike, bike, car and motorbike in exactly the same way - the middle of the lane. If there’s a segregated bike path, I use it, but I don’t use the pathetic skinny ones painted on the side of roads because they are dangerous. And my kids cycle on the pavement most of the time, but we’re slowly getting them used to cycling on quiet roads, when I will be cycling just behind them or just to the right of their back wheel, giving them instructions.

I don’t give a shiny shit if my cargo bike blocks you - you can wait. I have priority under the Highway Code and I have the moral high ground because no one in London needs to be driving anywhere. We have extremely good public transport. If you choose to drive, you are choosing to be snarled up in traffic polluting the air. It’s your choice to make, but I’m not putting myself out to let you past.

@FixTheBone

I’m always going to overtake stationary vehicles because otherwise I have to sit behind their exhaust pipes. Why should I have to breathe foul air to make your life easier?

it's bad to lose your momentum and your balance. I don't care. If you lose your momentum tough, start again. If you want to be treated with respect stop at the red light like you're meant to.

Agree. Please don’t go through red lights.
I nearly had a woman crash into me as I was crossing with a buggy, at the green man.
She then had then the nerve to scream at me because I ‘wasn’t looking where I was going’ 🤦‍♀️

Yes it does my head in. I have to cross some lights at a bottom of a hill. It's near a school. So many times a cyclist has whizzed through just as a child is crossing. They should be arrested.

Car should of waited

5 year old shouldn't be on road

Cyclists should be wary and assume car drivers won't do what they should as the risk to them is great, so the dad should of made the child wait even though it was the car that should.

I'm a motorcyclist and unfortunately it's you who needs to be cautious as you will come off worse.

The driver of the car was morally obliged to stop for the child.

The father is a total idiot.

Here in Germany, people ride their bikes everywhere, children included. There are strict rules and fines, including 1.5 metre distance and making sure you have working lights. Kids aren't allowed to ride on the roads til they are nine. Then they do a formal bike course and test at school in the 4th grade, which covers road rules, so that they can ride their bikes safely on the road. I think it is a great idea.

Plus, cyclists and pedestrians have right of way a lot of times, which can make crossing roads as a car-driver a little more stressful, because sometimes it is hard to see cyclists, but as a bike-rider, it feels a lot safer.

So many comments on Twitter asking if his son is OK and the dad has replied along the lines of "he's fine, he didn't even flinch". I'd suggest if you're a cyclist not flinching at a car passing you that closely then you're not ready to cycle on the roads.

The child is also on a really small bike which puts him in a dangerous position as he's shorter than car windows so might not be seen anyway.

The dad is a moron for even letting him ride on the road

This. The child could have ridden on the pavement if there was no cycle Lane anyway.

I can't believe any parent would let their 5-yeat-old cycle on this road. It's completely reckless.

Five-year-olds should not be wobbling around in the road with cars. The one putting the kid at most risk is his stupid father. Same with idiots who put their kid in a trailer or cargo bike.

I’d love to go on bike rides with my dd but the roads here are just not set up for biking. We drive our bikes to a special cycling trail which is lovely but driving somewhere to ride around and driving back seems weird!

it’s going to take a really long time to change the culture towards cycling. Where I live most people don’t even own bikes. Maybe the odd person who does triathlons. And kids under 10 who ride them in the park.

The video wasn't clear as far as I could see. They'd both passed the rights of way (narrowing with signs) and then approached cars parked on their sides of the road and started going past them. I couldn't work out if the car saw the kid before starting to pass the cars on his side.

A bike is not blocking a road, a bike is using the road. A car driver who can't process that, cannot plan for their journey should park (legally) put their keys in the bin and leave the roads to people who intend to SHARE them. It would save most of the arguments.

(Just as ridiculous as thinking roads are for cars).

Fixthebone, it's not about trying to overtake vehicles, it's about the cyclist getting to a safer space

A child so young should not be on the road, especially London roads at all. Some drivers simply do not care. So every time you take your child out on a bike or a carrier on the roads you are dicing with death. The roads are congested, the distraction is immense and there are inevitably serious accidents and death.

It is totally irresponsible to subject your child to that level of risk in the city, and even here on the country lanes drivers regular speed well over sixty.

Your call, but I would say 100% the parents responsibility and you can not simply hope and pray other road users will do the right thing. In many cases they simply won't/ have a million deliveries to do and don't have the time to be courteous/ don't notice too distracted by other things are bad drivers or simply have not noticed a young child on the road.

Death trap springs to mind.

Op if you live in london get rid of your car

I'm not comfortable with 5 year olds riding bikes in the road even though I guess I did it when I was a child, but it looks and feels dangerous. I'm just glad I live somewhere where cyclists go on the pavements wherever there are pavements (some roads don't have any but they're quiet roads and no cars parked on the sides taking up space), much safer (wide pavements, plenty of room for pedestrians and cyclists) which is important because so many children cycle to school.

This. We cycle a lot as a family, we live in a coastal town so it’s usually on the coastal paths or parks. If we are cycling through streets we cycle on the road with our son cycling beside us on the path. He is slightly younger but still wouldn’t have him on the road till he was quite a bit older