To think someone must be able to do something - part two

[PurpleLampShades]

I’m starting a new thread as advised by some posters and because the first thread was a great source of support for me (link to first thread here).

Long story short - DS (16) is in a “relationship” with a woman 11 years older than him that I believe started before he turned 16 at the end of July, though they both denied that to police and SS. I tried everything I could think of to stop it but he walked out of the house to stay with her at the end of September and I’m struggling to maintain contact with him. I’ve barely been able to see or speak to him since he left. She has shown very controlling behaviour and he is slowly becoming isolated from me, his friends and hobbies etc. Social services are currently involved, doing an assessment, but have already said it’s very difficult to do much without him consenting to input/intervention so I think they’re trying to prepare me for a poor outcome of the assessment. I am trying to focus on keeping my relationship with him going and ensuring he knows I’m here whenever he needs me and can come home whenever he needs no questions asked.

I'm so sorry Purple, how incredibly frustrating and upsetting. It doesn't sound like they've done any more work with the gf herself?

Your DS's change of behaviour does seem confusing, but I expect it's attempts to gloss over the issues to get everyone off his back. Thank goodness he's agreed to carry on with the counselling though (as well as contact with you). I wonder if the gf knows about this - it's less for him to have to explain to her I suppose, if she's giving him grief for stuff that's outside college hours.

It's interesting he has said the relationship is "better" - that does at least suggest he's aware there were issues. It would also be interesting to know what he considered the issues were that he was referring to. It can take time to build a therapeutic relationship, especially when it wasn't sought by him in the first instance, but I still hold hope that progress can be made, and the counsellor can delve a little deeper into things with him.

At the very least, it's promising that he has attended some of the workshops etc. Hopefully it will help him recognise warning signs if things deteriorate. If nothing else, he knows there is support out there for him he can go to, if/when his perspective changes. He'll know he's not totally isolated and where to get help, which is positive.

I'm just so sorry it's being such a long and drawn out process, but it might be again that it needs to get worse before it gets better.

Has there been a collective level of concern reported?I'm wondering like in previous devastating cases when so many people came forward and they got severe hanging for,whether this might be an option to make them do something.friends,college,family,mothers of friends.im totally clutching at straws here but there has to be more.
I'm so sorry @PurpleLampShades

It sounds like the GF is ‘love bombing’ him this last week or two. Probably because she is aware she is being watched and the hand on throat incident had been seen.

That explains your DS’ sudden joyous mood and how sure he is things are better and how nice she is and all the things she does etc etc.

It’s classic abusive behaviour and tbh I’m disappointed the SW team don’t see that.
Them pulling out after it seems briefly calmer and DS won’t engage is such a short term view.

Given the gravity of some of the issues ie underage/coercion and abuse with an age difference/estrangement from friends and family of a vulnerable young person etc etc I would be strongly asking them to extend this assessment period for another six weeks just to see if she reverts to type.

If they withdraw and she knows that and the facade fades he (and you) is potentially left unsupported by the authorities who actually have any power.

Has he agreed to continue seeing you at the contact centre purple?
Although I’m sure it’s not the most comfortable place to be I’d try and keep that in place as you have back up to help report anything negative that occurs or he shows emotions around her again etc.

I'm sorry purple.

I think I would really try to get his phone number and encourage him to visit you at home again, easier said than done I know, but this would be my priority now if the case might be closed. Tell him you understand that he's moved out and that girlfriend is his choice, but that you would like to have a normal mother/son relationship, where he can text you every so often and sometimes come round for his tea. Obviously you've tried that before and it didn't work, but let's try again and do better at it... something like that.

The most important thing is that he stays connected to you, not social services

Whilst this is pretty nuclear - if the system is failing your son then it could be an option, just obviously have to consider if it's worth the fall out.

They started their relationship when he was under 16 right? As much as they both say it wasn't sexual beforehand - it's quite clear that it was. She has essentially groomed your son, and continues to manipulate him.

I would seriously consider reporting her to the police for statutory rape, it'll all fall under the umbrella of sexual assault, grooming, coercive control. Doesn't matter if they've deleted messages off their phones they can be recovered easily enough, which would likely prove they were in a sexual relationship beforehand.

In any event, you report her and she will be arrested/bailed pending an investigation and part of those bail conditions will be to not contact him. Thinking of it, you can also report the hand around the throat incident as an assault. It'll paint the bigger picture.

I don't understand why SWs aren't considering this option in terms of documentation anyhow.

It could at least buy you time - where he is forced to be away from her.

Going back to the concern shown at Contact Centre regarding hand round your son's throat. This is exactly what happened with Charles Saatchi and Nigella Lawson. They were sat at their usual terrace table at a restaurant and he had her hand round her throat. It was widely publicised and she broke off the relationship immediately. The action was condemned by the public.

This is a horrible situation for the OP and her son but I'm really not sure how much can be done without the buy in from him which at the moment they don't have.

Him engaging will be scary. He feels like he needs this relationship at the moment, even if there are problems. He will possibly be scared of her and her reaction, he might not want to admit he's turned his life upside down for nothing.
He might not feel he can come home so he needs to know they aren't the only two options available.

To look at a CP plan they are going to have to clearly evidence actual/risk of significant harm and it doesn't seem like there is enough evidence of this.

I mean, they're not stupid and they'll all be able to see the situation and see that it's really not good but actually they need evidence. That doesn't mean they don't care and don't want to do anything but they're right that 16-18 is really tricky.

Staying on CIN for another review period is about the best they can hope for to keep an eye on him for a bit longer.

I feel like he needs someone to come alongside him that isn't a counsellor or social worker and really get to know him and build that trust with no agenda and no judgment.

Maybe a youth worker or peer support and something that isn't time limited or dependent on social services intervention. Someone to say, I'm not going anywhere and someone that won't give up if he initially tells them to fuck off.

He is going to be surrounded by judgment at the moment and he and the girlfriend will retreat from everyone to avoid a light being shone on their issues and the nature of their relationship.

The suggestion to get her arrested and force them apart would almost certainly have the opposite effect.
He likely won't cooperate so again, they won't have evidence to prosecute her.
It will also drive them together, them against the world and strengthen the bond between them.

I know I sound really defeatist but I feel like playing the long game is the only option here.
Trying to keep connections with him, find him a trusted person to get to know him and listen to him or just kick a ball about a couple of times a week.

Be there and hopefully he'll have the strength to speak out and ask for help if he needs it.

I just want to send love and hugs x

oh purple I am so sorry to read this. I don't work in that sector so won't offer any advice, but Im here to support you and think of you and the situation often and hope for an outcome where your son is home with you.

My only point is like many others have said and to ask if there is any police involvement.

I still don't see this relationship lasting with such an enormous age gap at their current ages but it could still be a while before it fizzles out. I had a feeling the investigation over the hand on throat thing might deter him from engaging further. So will he still meet you weekly at the contact centre?

If things really are great.it will be nonproblem for him to come over when you both arrange the right?
"Oh it all sounds really good,so things would be OK to come home again then?you or both of you of course? Back to normal out of this place eh"
Surely if she's this wonderful woman that will all be fine now.
2 can play that game.kill her with kindness,reasonable,want you round like a family,get to know each other again.

I'm so sorry to hear your update. You would think that him withdrawing his cooperation would ring alarm bells and have more intervention, not less.

It seems madness that ss are effectively saying the opposite.

Hopefully your visits will continue.

I'm sorry OP xx

The poor boy probably doesn't know if he's on his head or his heels.

I bet this time he'd been love-bombed so he thinks it's all rosy and she's reeled him back in and they're back to being loved-up.

Then she'll start again

Classic abuse cycle

It’s all so frustrating, and the frustration causes so much stress and worry. I’m just exhausted mentally but I can’t stop going over and thinking about it all. Draining is definitely the right word. I feel incredibly drained of everything.

The police have been involved from the very beginning really, but the issue is there is very little evidence and DS vehemently denies anything untoward. They went to see him at her house right at the beginning to check he was okay, they asked him about when he was 15, they saw him with the sw after the throat incident, they are at the meetings. Everything that’s happened or been witnessed, including the hand around throat incident, has been explained away as totally innocent by both of them. And whilst we can see what’s going on it’s incredibly hard to prove if DS doesn’t tell them anything or simply denies it. She has him well trained in that respect. He is completely under her spell.

He attended two workshops that focused on healthy relationships but was reported to not really have paid that much attention and didn’t get involved in any discussion or activities. He was on his phone a lot apparently. I am glad he’s said he will continue with the counselling though I’m not sure how genuine that would have been. Once a month doesn’t really seem enough but I suppose if he goes it’s another person that can monitor the situation and provide support.

They have only spoken to her about how her behaviour might be perceived. There have been no interventions provided for her. I was going to suggest one of those abuse perpetrator courses but I’m not sure if they have to have been arrested and made to go on one or whether ss can make it happen. She probably would refuse anyway, but I do feel she isn’t being made to examine her own behaviour. I have no idea if she knows what she’s doing is horribly abusive behaviour or not. Some people are utterly clueless aren’t they? But then, she seems to be able to change and manipulate things easily so she must know what she’s doing to him. The love bombing this last week shows that doesn’t it? Then I start wondering why she picked my DS to break apart and destroy. What is she getting from this? She can’t love him or even like him if she treats him like this. It’s this stuff that goes around and around in my head. It makes me so so sad that he is in this situation and just can’t see how awful it is. I thought I had taught him about, and shown him, love but I suppose it’s a different kind of love isn’t it. Maybe I just haven’t taught the right things.

He has said he will still see me at the contact centre but not every week like we have been. I don’t know the exact reason why but I can hazard a guess like you all can I’m sure.

I’ll look into whether there is any peer support or youth worker options nearby. I suppose that would need DS going out to meet them on his own, which seems to be getting more and more difficult. I don’t know. I’m feeling very deflated and a bit hopeless I have to say.

Just want to give you a massive hug Purple.

Did they have any advice for you? In how to manage things your end? It all feels so passive. The restraint from just letting rip at them both for not taking your feelings into consideration must be overwhelming at times. Does your counsellor have a helpful perspective?

He does need to become aware of how much this is hurting and upsetting you - but I imagine it's very much a timing issue. I would really hope they'd have some constructive advice as to how best to manage. Is there any talk of family therapy?

Gosh I'm so sorry.

I think I would push back on him coming off it.

Point out that:

He hasn't really been engaging with counselling and the classes;
The contact centre has had to flag things very recently including the bruising and how withdrawn he was;
That you suspect his comments about things going well are because of love bombing and that is a recognised part of the cycle of abuse;
That coercive control is an offence and he is a vulnerable minor.

I would ask that he stay on for another period of time to see if there is any change.

I would also make absolutely clear you do not support him coming off it.

I'm so sorry you are in this position.

I would be asking if they would be more concerned if it was young girl being groomed by an older man? Is he perceived as less vulnerable due to his sex?

Regardless of his gender, if there's no evidence there's no evidence. It is clear the social worker isn't comfortable with the situation, but if there isn't the evidence to step it up to child protection, and a 16yr old doesn't consent to a voluntary plan, SS hands are tied.
Pressure from MPs or anyone else won't change that. The police havent been able to secure evidence. As a PP said this is about having to play the long game.
I know through experience that there are plenty of other children sadly who are in situations that professionals aren't happy about leaving but don't have grounds to insist on supporting. Suspected grooming or unhealthy relationships included.

This is a long thread so I’m sorry if I’m not understanding something-but why is the OP providing her DS with money? Surely as his legal guardian she could say that she’s not financially supporting him to live with this woman and that might encourage the end of the relationship as he seems to need to contribute to the bills.

Again, sorry if I’m not understanding something.

Because she wants him to stay in college. If she stops his money then he Will probably drop out and get a job.
It would also be more ammunition for the gf to turn him against op.

@fairgame84 He’d still have to be in some sort of training/education/apprenticeship until 18 though.

@HamBone legally he should be in education until he's 18, but there's very little anyone does about 16+ who stop attending. There are unscrupulous employers who will take on that age group because they're cheaper. Or teens that age get a couple of different part time jobs and tell the employers that the days they're working are days they're not in college.

God Purple you must be exhausted with the whole situation.
@socialworkme post makes so much sense, it's sadly a case of wait and see, letting him know you are always going to be there for him. Sending you strength and a big hug. X