To think someone must be able to do something - part two

[PurpleLampShades]

I’m starting a new thread as advised by some posters and because the first thread was a great source of support for me (link to first thread here).

Long story short - DS (16) is in a “relationship” with a woman 11 years older than him that I believe started before he turned 16 at the end of July, though they both denied that to police and SS. I tried everything I could think of to stop it but he walked out of the house to stay with her at the end of September and I’m struggling to maintain contact with him. I’ve barely been able to see or speak to him since he left. She has shown very controlling behaviour and he is slowly becoming isolated from me, his friends and hobbies etc. Social services are currently involved, doing an assessment, but have already said it’s very difficult to do much without him consenting to input/intervention so I think they’re trying to prepare me for a poor outcome of the assessment. I am trying to focus on keeping my relationship with him going and ensuring he knows I’m here whenever he needs me and can come home whenever he needs no questions asked.

It's not uncommon from professionals to shy away from labelling things as 'abusive' and resort instead to describing the 'unhealthy dynamics' of a relationship. I doubt this is a reflection on your DS and more about the terms the professionals are familiar with using/are advised to use. It gets my goat as you come across it in DV cases too where one partner is clearing physically abusing the other but the focus is instead on the dynamics of the relationship.

Yes, there is definitely some positive action that’s come out of it. I just hope the action also has a positive impact on DS. I hope the counsellor can build a connection with him. I’m looking forward to seeing him but am also nervous. Nervous about seeing my own child. It doesn’t make sense does it?

The police representative called her behaviour controlling at one point, when I mentioned about the phone and the demanding he switch partners at college, but generally the majority also made reference to an unhealthy relationship dynamic over abusive. The review is going to be in 6 weeks. I asked how they will decide whether to escalate or not and they said as long as DS engages with the CIN and nothing significant happens then there won’t need to be an escalation to a CP plan. They said the aim is to improve the relationship dynamics and get DS integrated back into life and as long as there is progress towards that they will be happy.

I feel a bit like perhaps they’re treating him like he has more idea of the world and relationships than he actually does. I understand it’s important for young people in the 16-18 age bracket to have input and freedom to make choices but he is still young, has no experience and has been influenced and coerced by her for nearly a year……some months before he even turned 16. I think because there’s no ‘evidence’ of that they’ve kind of brushed over it. I should have brought that up again today. They don’t think he is at risk of significant harm. I suppose it depends how you define what significant harm is doesn’t it? To me he is being psychologically harmed in a significant way but I guess that’s not how they see it. If she were beating him up it would be a different story.

Language like significant harm only serves to muddy the waters and give professionals an "excuse" not to act. I say this as an ex Social worker. Harm is harm fullstop and there is no doubt that her behaviours are harmful to your son. Having said that there are some positives from todays meeting. The fact that there is some sort of plan in place is good news. Even if your son is going along with it because he has to, the fact that it keeps you two in contact, at the very least, opens up the possibility for change.

Also that the prior years to that were presumably pandemic ones? Many teenagers coming out of that were emotionally less mature (understandably) again. I really hope your situation improves soon

The police representative called her behaviour controlling at one point, when I mentioned about the phone and the demanding he switch partners at college

Good that the police rep said it. Why on earth are the sw's avoiding saying it?
Its a positive he has agreed to see you at a contact centre. Hopefully he can have time with you without her constantly interrupting or turning up early to collect him.

I hope you are getting lots of support.

there does seem a lot of info discussed today which on the surface look actually really promising. so im hoping to beleive this and not just see it as big paragraphs and lip service.
they need to not throw all their usual tick box tools at him. but get to know the boy himself. get to care and no the feelings hes going through. this is the only thing that will help here.if he feels listened to and cared for outside of her grasp.not just ordered to do another thing "she said theyd do this" kind of thing to "get your away from me"
this has to be lots about building relationships of trust so he feels he can step away or talk if he needs to. which he wont if they dont LISTEN. and learn from ewhat your seeing and what is actually going on.

you seeing him again sounds amazing.in a contact centre hmmm.but at least you get to see your boy. do they allow you to bring things with you.maybe you could bring in or order both your favorite take outs.or start some tastes of home.
did you hve a favorite game.or something you could do together that to start with sets things up as less presurised. is there anything you have seen or done recently that you could takr with you.so its something to get out "here look at this" have you done anything in the house or added a furniture or anything just so you can show him a photo. get the conversation going straight away.
no need to feel nervous.though i can totally understand it.
im so glad youve felt ok to come back and talk on here op.
we are all still here.stnading up beside you.
youll beat this. we beleive in you.

good to talk to your footie mum tomorrow too. she might be able to say all the right things you need to hear right now. please dont be afriad to let it go and lean on people. they can take it.and want to if they are true friends. dont worry ever about being aburden right now to those who care and love you.
if i was your friend and loved one id want to scoop you up hold you tiht and let you tell me aynthing and everything with snot and tears and all the inbetween.

Just a few thoughts on him wanting to use a contact centre - it does make it more formal and you're right, a benefit is that this will be harder for his gf to meddle with. We don't know if that's how he sees it, let's hope so, but it will be interesting if she persists with the constant messaging during the sessions. It will be good to have someone there from ss to witness his reactions to this if it happens.

I do have some concerns that this decision also relates to his last visit to you though, because (and this may be a bit hard to hear, so sorry for that) whilst entirely reasonable for you to want to explore things with him (it seemed like no-one else was) he had said previously he didn't want to discuss his relationship with you when he visited. The conversation you had with him about his friends, and about the girl partner situation did encroach on this territory. I expect the gf made a big deal out of this with him, but it may also have made him feel like his boundaries were being overstepped. With someone in an abusive situation, these feelings can be exacerbated across all relationships and it's common to then become a bit hypervigilant about other people's motivation. So in some ways it's positive that he's recognised this, and is able to put a boundary down, even if a bit clunky, but in others it is emphasing mis-placed blame that you are being portrayed as the abuser here.

Of course I may be entirely wrong, but I'm just saying this might be something to bare in mind as you consider how to approach contact. Hopefully, now there is a professional on board, exploring and working with his feelings about the whole situation, it will enable you to feel less pressured to find out exactly what's going on for him (because someone else is) and the risk of you overstepping in this way is reduced. You can concentrate entirely on just enjoying some time with him, reminding him you are safe, for the first few sessions at least, and just see how it goes.

If I am right, and this is behind the decision, it may pay off , further down the line, to acknowledge and address this with him. I do wonder if family therapy might also be useful to you both at some stage, maybe chat to your own counsellor about this.

Hope you're feeling okay today and not too wiped out after the meeting. These things can be quite exhausting so again, take good care and be gentle with yourself.

Purple, loads of good suggestions from @kateandme. On another tack though, I'm assuming someone in this meeting takes minutes which the other professionals receive. Do you receive them? Or can you request them? Tell your contact you want to have an overview of the whole situation from when you first brought it to their attention through to now, noting what their actions have been and whether their actions have been sufficient or effective. I feel like they need to be seen to be held to account for not improving matters so far. It may not go down well with them though and maybe some SW on here might be able to say whether it would be constructive.

I have said it before: force them to look at the situation when he was 15.

yeh a goold round robin email with EVERYONE relevant,important,influencial cc'd in. everyone then HAS the info and can be held accountable.social workers,camhs,the college,council,mps,even some others from abuse forums, a trail so this cant be swept under the carpert.and you want to see action now or what has previously been done.

I think that's a really positive update purple, sounds like they are taking the situation seriously and you will get to see your son again soon, albeit at a contact centre. And very hopeful that he is going for counselling. The girlfriend will not be happy about that no doubt.

Yes, the significant harm thing is completely subjective. And a bit confusing if they're saying they will escalate to child protection if nothing improves - the threshold for cp is 'risk of sig harm' You could ask why they reached that decision? Considering his relationship with you has been really broken, he hardly sees friends, he's stopped going to football and he's on verge of dropping out of college. How is that not plenty of evidence of risk of sig harm.

In terms of contact centre, to answer another poster - yes you can bring food and activities. Do you know if it will be professionally supervised purple? Usually this is only in place when there are safeguarding concerns about the parents care, which there obv isn't in your case. Perhaps they will just give you a room? I would advise thinking with the sw about how to ensure he attends - contact centres can sometimes arrange for children to be picked up and dropped off by staff, we want to make it as difficult as possible for gf to put barriers in. Maybe q session straight after college so he doesn't have to leave home/her to go, where she's likely to lay on the guilt. As always, resources are an issue and they may not be able to offer this flexibility, but something for sw to push for.

I also agree with @longleggitybeastie about family therapy, I would ask sw about this and expect it to be put in place. As a 'child in need' he has access to a pot of money that is referred to as 'section 17 funds' and therapy can be paid for out of that. All local authorities vary in how they distribute their finances but I'd def ask about it. If there is resistance, I would ask how else they intend to prevent escalation to cp?

In relation to accessing your files to see accountability, I mean that's up to you. It's everyone's right to access their files, you have to submit something called a 'subject access request', its a bit of a process and can take a while. I don't know how beneficial it will be.

Oh and I'd also be interested why no work being done with her. If they're calling it an 'unhealthy dynamic' then you would expect she should be part of improving the dynamic - you cant change a dynamic with 1 person. But if they don't think that appropriate- it's because she's abusive - you dont include perps in that work. God they make me so angry - sorry purple that doesn't help you I know.

I hope things get better soon. I have a perspective that I haven't seen others share yet. Its a devils advocate perspective that might guide your future approach. And not a perspective that I personally hold.

I was thinking that if the GF is successfully manipulating your son, she might try to instill the idea that you are the source of the problem/abuser. He might start repeating this view to SW. But cut you off rather than discuss with you.

I can imagine that the SW have to tread carefully. By telling you what he says, they might break his trust or worry they cause more conflict between you and him if they tell you. So it might not be shared. However, you seem very reasonable and it would be useful information for you this is what he believes. Talking therapy could be useful to unpick. Conflicts between parents and 15 year old is exceptionally common..... And perhaps she has twisted these to sounds pathological to him, even if they are normal.

This could explain why the contract center is being used. It could be good to have supervised contact.

On here you come across as entirely fair and supportive. You seem to handle it much better than I would have done. And have a very high level of respect for his choices even though you are clear they are not in his best interests.

You don't have to answer this but was your and your son's relationship at all strained before he met her? Can you find out whether he has said anything about your like this from the people you are talking to? Can you ask him how he feels about you.... Softly to start a conversation? Can you get therapy about yours and his relationship? ..... Ignoring her. If you can make strong ties and debunk any views he has adopted about you, this could help.

She might be doing the same with his friends. That might be easier to approach. But if she is doing it about his friends, she is almost certainly trying to convince him his family relationships are toxic. Undoing this view could be very important. But first you need to find out whether she has done this.

It was described as supported contact at the contact centre rather than supervised. Apparently that means we won’t have anyone watching us, but someone will be around to offer support if we need it. It was sold to me as somewhere neutral that we can meet and start trying to reconnect and build our relationship. DS told the SW it was too hard coming to the house. I’m not sure of the reason why, so she suggested a contact centre which he agreed to try.

Yes, I do wonder if part of it is because of his last visit home. It really didn’t go well and perhaps he was more angry or upset than I realised. Or perhaps gf has been in his ear about it too. I don’t know. Our first visit is going to be arranged for next week if there’s space. Depending on what time it is I may bring food/snacks for us. I don’t plan on talking about anything other than him, me and general chit chat stuff, even though I want to fire questions at him about college, her and everything. I will force myself not to and just focus on him and maybe let him lead the topic of conversation.

I know the gf is going to be told she must be seen to encourage and support DS in maintaining relationships with friends and family, attending college and developing hobbies etc but I don’t know if they’re going to get her to do anything else. It does seem a bit like DS is the one that has to do all the work to ‘fix’ things while she just does what she pleases. I’m not sure what kind of message that sends to him really. It seems like it would reinforce the idea that any issues are his fault, which is what gf manipulates him into thinking quite a lot as far as I can tell. I know he’s often overheard on the phone to her apologising. About what I don’t know but it’s quite regular if what his friends say is true.

She has definitely tried to twist things in his head about me and his friends (I keep saying ‘his friends’ but they’re not really now as he’s withdrawn completely from them and doesn’t see or speak to them). She has repeatedly told him his friendship group is toxic, they don’t really care about him, they’re jealous, they don’t understand adult relationships etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if she has done the same about me too, based on some things he’s said previously. He has said before that she’s the only one that really cares about him and knows what he needs, that I’m the one trying to control him etc. I feel like he’s a bit confused and conflicted about it all to be honest. Hopefully, the counselling can help him work some of those feelings out. I just hope he engages with it. It’s all very well saying he’ll try it but it won’t be much use if he goes and just sits there in silence.

I feel that overall, our relationship was always quite good. We obviously had occasional blips like all parents / teens do but generally we got on well and had fun / could chat / looked after each other.

I will ask about family therapy and funding. Thank you for that info.

It's understandable but with kindness, your obvious anger towards her oozes from your posts and you do seem quite focused on how everything is all something that she has made him say, think or do. I think it may be wiser to try and steer away from that, and let this start from fresh without your feelings about her being so palpable because he is going to pick up on that. If you can realign that focus with some acceptance that there has probably been immense pressure on him from both sides, it may give you the insight you need to help resolve things. As said before, the last thing you want is for home to be somewhere he feels alienated from.

@Notjustjulie she gets it our here to vent, to express herself so she can collect herself and be strong when she sees her ds.

Of course OP is angry at the gf. It's quite normal to be angry sometimes in life, especially in a situation such as this. OP has done everything in her power to not inflame the situation. There's no need for your negativity.

What are you on about? OP is for one talking on here where she can say what she likes in a supportive place and frankly is remarkably reserved about this woman who is potentially (likely) manipulating and abusing her son.
In terms of what she appears to be saying to her son I think purple has shown enormous restraint. Have you read the description of the Xmas visit? I’d have let rip at that woman months ago which would have been a disaster but I don’t think I could stop myself.

purple you are doing so well. There is no manual for this and it’s all well and good people saying oh that was a bad plan after something had clearly not
gone so well but loads of posters will have been suggesting you do just that a few days before. Don’t doubt yourself. He sounds so defensive which is classic of someone in an abusive relationship who isn’t yet ready to leave. He’s young and being manipulated and I agree with you she may well be driving his thoughts that everyone is out to control him but her.

I really hope the contact centre works well and he keeps engaging this time. I also hope you both manage to reconnect a little bit on neutral territory. I admire you hugely and it also breaks my heart what you are going through.

I think that’s a bit unfair. The pp was polite and just raised a different perspective.

I agree with Notjustjulie - you need a softly softly approach here. The only thing you can do is listen to him, tell him your door is always open and that you love him. At the moment he must feel like he is in a tug of war between two strong women. This advice is based on my own experience - it took a while, but it worked and things turned out OK. I had to grit my teeth and manage my anxiety, which I know is tough. 💐

exactly. its like all this work is being done around her. protecting her. when she is the denominator problem here.
has anyone talked to her at all since the initial talks.
if this was ayounger child they would be talking to the abuser usually the parents all the time. if even to help "these people" do a better job or get help for their behaviours.

agood family therpist would be great here because one thing they could do is be the person (not bad mum) who would be hearing what hes going through,what gf is saying to him and its not "mum turning him agasint her" or not listening. this would be a third party impartial person who possibly could have dv training and know what signs to pick up and talk through to help steer his thoughts back to rational.
i guess the big problem with therapy is its deff a voluntary thing. i doubt he would engage?

Yes, getting him to engage is the key here. I'm hoping the college counsellor might make a little progress, and if he starts to feel the benefit, he may be more open to the idea. At the moment he might just need his own space that the counselling will give him. FT might be something the counsellor identifies and discusses with him in anycase. Definitely worth exploring with the SW to see if it's been considered.

Was on thread from beginning, but have NC since.

I do hope your DS engages in therapy as they will be able to help him so much. I would maybe say to SW that you are willing to do a family/group therapy, possibly further down the line.

@PurpleLampShades we are all here for you, thinking of you and hoping this comes to an end soon.