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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say no to my mum living with us?

261 replies

Cowardlytiger · 14/11/2022 09:08

My mum is really struggling at the moment. She has a long history of mental health problems and since my dad died 18 months ago this has all got a lot worse. I’ve done my best to support her (sorting probate, sorting out paying all her bills, speaking to her every day on the phone, finding somewhere for her to live jn supported living close to us) but she says things are still terrible with daily panic attacks and feeling anxious all the time and she hates living alone. But I really, really don’t want her living with us - I have two kids to think about too and, although this sounds very unsympathetic, she is quite hard to deal with (she will cry on the phone to me for an hour or so each day telling me about how awful everything is and how awful my dad was to her etc etc) and I just feel I cannot cope with any more of it - and worry it would not be good for my kids either. But am I just being a selfish cow?

OP posts:
MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 14/11/2022 12:58

by the way if you wanted to carry on this chat in DM please feel free. There's a lot of well-meaning, technically correct advice here but unless you have had this kind of mother it's impossible to understand how hard, impossible really, it is to step back from the parentification, the intense love, the feeling of being responsible. I do understand so if you need to talk please do.

Etinoxaurus · 14/11/2022 13:00

Yellowdahlia12 · 14/11/2022 09:26

I expect most people will say don't do it, but if it will help her, and that's what she wants, then I can't see any valid reason to refuse. No, she might never move out, but if you could make her final years happier, then why not?

Because it sounds like it would impact on OP MH's and her that of her children.
Flowers @Cowardlytiger

Cowardlytiger · 14/11/2022 13:01

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry, I can’t imagine how hard that must have been FWIW I agree you did the right thing (so much easier to see when it’s someone else isn’t it!)
thank you again

OP posts:
MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 14/11/2022 13:02

Canthave2manycats · 14/11/2022 12:58

Doesn't mean that it was a good idea...

@Yellowdahlia12

This isn't a dear cuddly old granny who will sit in the corner knitting. This is a very troubled alcoholic. This is not a case of 'oh the extended family is dying, what a tragedy, how atomised and selfish people are nowadays". The OP has to decide whether to take into her home, with her children, someone who is volatile, unpredictable, probably sometimes very frightening. Someone who she cannot impose boundaries with, because there is a lifetime of having them overridden at play.

You are advising that loyalty to the previous generation should outweigh responsibility to the next. There are other options for her mum. Her child has no choices, can only live in the environment OP creates for her.

Mlb123 · 14/11/2022 13:03

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 14/11/2022 12:53

Hi OP I had to reply to you at length because I feel for you so much. I have been in a very similar situation.

My mum had profound mental heath problems from a young child. Depression, anxiety, a couple of episodes approximating psychosis when a teen. She also had a terrible hard life - tragic bereavements, difficult relationship with her mum, abusive marriages. When she was approaching 60 it came to a head when her then husband (who she already had a difficult relationship with) had a stroke and then got cancer, she was thrust into a carer role she was totally unable to fulfil, there was mutual abuse, it was awful. Eventually they broke up acrimoniously and he moved out. She didn't cope well with being alone, leaned heavily on booze to cope (always a crutch but then out of control), had money worries. She became paranoid that her ex was poisoning all their friends against her.

I have always been enmeshed with her, but the timing of this crisis was difficult as I had recently had my first child and it caused me huge emotional upheaval as I reviewed my childhood and our parent-child relationship in the light of my own experience of motherhood. So I was dealing with some hurt, resentment and bitterness that was very new to me, whilst also trying to love and support her through this crisis from a long distance away with a small child. It all felt too much.

Then she made the suggestion that she wanted to sell her house and move in with us.

I said no. I felt like I had to, for the good of my child and myself and my relationship. I didn't want her MH and her drinking around my DD long term. So I said no.

She was initially furious and cut all contact with me, but did in the end get back in touch and we resumed our usual relationship - so I thought.

I later found this was around the time she resolved to end her life, which she ultimately did some few months later, the day she moved the last of her ex's things out of her house, and the day her mental health nurse missed a home visit with her without advising her it was cancelled. When I read her messages to friends etc (she specifically didn't leave me a message) she spoke about having been abandoned and let down by everyone, friends, family, everyone.

There are no two ways about it, to some extent the decision I made to say no contributed to her death. And it has taken me a lot of time to learn to live with that. In many ways I am still trying to come to terms with it, and forgive myself.

But - and this is the crux of the matter - I would still make the same choice, if it came down to it.

I would never have been able to 'make her happy' or 'make her better'. These were deep profound problems that had existed long before I did, that had endured a lifetime of me trying to fix them, that were worsening all the time. Having her live with me would have broken down the only boundary i had with her, that of distance - all my other boundaries, all the normal boundaries of a parent and a child had been overridden long before I had any choice in the matter. I would have been pulled under with her, I could not pull her out.

And most of all, I was right to prioritise my child, to put her wellbeing before my mother's. If it had been put to me as a straight choice, even then, to lose my mother or to expose my baby at close quarters to all that dysfunction in her formative years with God knows what effect - well to be fair, I know personally some of the effect - well I don't know. I don't know if I could have made the choice. But if I look at it cold-eyed after the fact, try to ignore the huge love and responsibility I felt and still feel for my mum - the choice I unwittingly made would be the right one. Because my first responsibility is to my children. Has to be.

So that's my story. That's the 'worst case scenario' of you saying no to her, and someone who has been through it telling you, for what it's worth, that I would not judge you for choosing your children. You sound like you're doing and have done so much already for her, stuff a child should never have had to or experience. You have given up your own boundaries, and may not be able to redraw them again as the lines have long since faded away. But you can and you should draw an iron boundary round your kids. You decide where that line is but don't for a second hesitate to draw it and defend it. It's your main job as a mother, and the only way we can avoid rewriting our own histories.

I am very sorry what you went through and I think it was both very brave of you to share this story and also I really believe that it showed a lot of insight because you were able to demonstrate that it is not because you said no to her moving in and you didn't have a choice when you factored in everything including your child's needs. If you had of moved her in then there is a very real likelihood that she could have taken her own life in your home after conflict or something that pushed her over the edge and you would have had even more to go through and it would have been even more awful for you and your child if this had happened under your roof. Take care xxxx

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 14/11/2022 13:03

Excellent advice on here. Similar scenario for me a few years ago except my mother wasn’t a drinker but was always a narc. She was also struggling to cope living on her own but wouldn’t acknowledge the fact.

I had hours of teary phone calls, endless wailing about how lonely she was, imagined illness and guilt tripping about why I didn’t visit her more - I lived 1 1/2 hours away and went as regularly as possible. She didn’t want a solution, the problems were too useful for manipulation purposes. I arranged all sorts of social things for her to be involved in but when the private transport arrived, she would tell the driver she was too busy and was already going out!

I could never have had her living in the same house as me but I suggested, as an only child, that we sold both our houses and jointly buy a property where she had her own complete annex and independence but that was rejected as “I don’t want to move away from all my friends” Er, what friends, you said you were lonely and hadn’t seen anyone for weeks?!

Please be very careful of manipulation and also of being too available. My mother definitely needed support with her MH but I found the authorities generally will try and shove the responsibility back on you if you’re not assertive enough. Some sort of sheltered accommodation might be appropriate for your mother? I told mine we were going out for a trip (I’d packed a suitcase for her and hidden it in the car boot) and took her to a lovely care home and told she was there ‘until she felt a bit better and was stronger’ I knew she would never agree and she kicked off majorly the first few days but she soon settled down and the relief that she was being mentally stimulated, was less of a danger to herself and was being fed appropriately was a massive burden lifted.

Good luck. It’s a very hard situation to find yourself in and no one should be judgemental until they find themselves dealing with an elderly parent.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 14/11/2022 13:04

In the past it was quite common to have grandma living in the family home

Probably because there was little to no provision for the elderly bar the workhouse. And guess which sex bore the burden of caring for them?

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 14/11/2022 13:06

@Mlb123

Thank you so much for your kind words, it means a lot. Every day I have to forgive myself for the part I played, it's a never-ending process it seems. But it helps to be forgiven by others, to have the validation that I made the best choice I could.

Really not intended as a derail from the OP though, I hope it will serve her as a 'thought experiment' - what if the worst thing happened - type thing.

KettrickenSmiled · 14/11/2022 13:09

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen Flowers

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/11/2022 13:10

We’ve found an assisted living place for her very close to us but she’s now saying she thinks she might be too anxious to manage the journey there to look at it

I wonder if this is the all-too-common "putting obstacles in the way so OP will have to let me live with her"?

With the drunkenness and other issues mentioned you're clearly not BU at all in refusing, and if she's not already had one a SS assessment is probably your best way forward - and if she refuses even that you may have to step back and wait for a crisis to force the issue

Johnnysgirl · 14/11/2022 13:11

Cowardlytiger · 14/11/2022 09:28

I guess the reason to refuse is because it’s not what I want to do, not what my husband wants and not what the kids want. Is that valid or just selfish? I don’t know.

It's quite valid.

FabFitFifties · 14/11/2022 13:12

Hi OP, I think it's still too early to move out of her own home, whether it's to you or assisted living. She hasn't had time to adjust (based on my own mother, who made some horrendous decisions in the first couple of years.) It would be far harder to have to leave your house, when you and your family can't cope, than to eventually move from her own home to somewhere more suitable for her.

Mlb123 · 14/11/2022 13:16

Cowardlytiger · 14/11/2022 10:15

I do love my mum and desperately want to help her as (although I probably sound very negative about it all here) I do understand that she is in ab awful place and desperately needs help and support (and more than the NHS is giving her at the moment). So I feel bad for her. But I just can’t have her live with us (or currently even have her overnight). She feels that’s very hurtful and upsetting, which I also understand. But I don’t think I’m going to change my mind. And feel a bit better after this.

I don’t know what I’d do if she didn’t drink / smoke. I guess if she’d never drunk (the drinking has been on and off since my own childhood but I remember being in the car when she crashed into a lamppost drunk when I was about 10 and many more occasions when I couldn’t wake her etc) everything would be different.

You could never relax because of safety and past experience would heighten your worry. It's obviously been a factor , but you wanted opinions before you added that in simply because as you say you don't know if things would be different for you if it wasn't for those things.

Even if you chose to give it a go on the basis of her promising not to smoke in your home or drink it's likely she would promise and then just break that promise and you would find it hard getting her out if she was living with you xxx

CousinKrispy · 14/11/2022 13:17

I'm so sorry, OP, what a difficult situation. While there are many cases in which family do take in a widow or widower, this is a case in which I think it is absolutely essential that you do not. You absolutely must maintain firm and healthy boundaries with her so you don't sacrifice the wellbeing of yourself and your family to someone who has demanded too much of you in the past and will probably continue to do so, due to their own mental health and substance abuse issues.

It's one thing to take in mum or dad when they have a good healthy relationship with you. Though even then, if it doesn't work for you and your family, you are NOT required to do that. But in a case like this, you must maintain those boundaries.

You can feel love and compassion for your mum while having those boundaries.

Please take care of yourself, you have also lost your dad and are having to navigate a relationship with a difficult mother. That's a lot for you to deal with Flowers

Mlb123 · 14/11/2022 13:20

PinkyU · 14/11/2022 09:49

This is so, so sad.

I would , and did, do it and in much trickier circumstances than you op with no spare room, a disabled child and a parent with serious physical and mental illnesses.

Yes it was tough but the improvement in both physical and mental health in my mum was remarkable, giving that routine, care and company made a huge difference in the remaining years of her life and changed, for the better, our own relationship.

I would have greatly regretted not doing it now I’m able to look back.

It worked for you but naturally you are basing things on your own mother and she could be a lot different to the Op and she already knows that having her mam love there won't likely end up positively xx

gamerchick · 14/11/2022 13:22

stopbeeping · 14/11/2022 09:53

I know it would be so hard but I would do it

She raised you even though it's absoloutley the hardest job in the world to raise kids and you can't give them away (mum of three and I can testify it is the hardest thing I've ever been through)

I couldn't bare to get left if I was in her position and my child had a home full of love and kindness that I could be nurtured in

Yabu but I know how hard and grating it will be to have her with you

There's no fucking way I would foist myself on my kids. Never. We didn't and our kids didn't ask to be born. There is absolutely no obligation later on.

Keep pushing it be supported living OP. Dont be manipulated. Tell her this is her own option or a care home.

WifeMotherWorker · 14/11/2022 13:23

YANBU - put yourself and your children first. Having your mum live with you will not enhance your home life or be appreciated by your DH and DC. Your posts are very caring and compassionate and you already go above and beyond for your mum, doing so in complete isolation as an only child. Facilitating a move closer is a great idea.
Also that was a very warranted drip feed so you could see balanced responses before highlighting the alcohol dependency.
Good luck OP x

nomdegrrr1 · 14/11/2022 13:25

Yellowdahlia12 · 14/11/2022 09:26

I expect most people will say don't do it, but if it will help her, and that's what she wants, then I can't see any valid reason to refuse. No, she might never move out, but if you could make her final years happier, then why not?

My late father lived with us for a few years before he died and it was one of the best decisions we ever made.Having said that, there were far too many times when I had to choose between my father's welfare and the welfare of my son. And I had it easy! I've seen other relatives have their lives completely trashed because they were caring for someone.

If you have someone joining the family home who will need a lot of care then it needs to work for all involved, including the OPs husband and kids. Otherwise it could destroy everyone.

OP - sheltered housing may be a better idea for your mother. And, from experience, be very wary about agreeing anything at all with social services or care teams.

Good luck.

Mlb123 · 14/11/2022 13:27

Cowardlytiger · 14/11/2022 10:01

Thanks everyone, this has been really helpful. With lots of apologies I’ll now add the massive drip feed, which is that my mum frequently gets drunk to cope with her anxiety and has been evicted from a rental flat due to her behaviour when drunk in the last year (we had 6 weeks or so of phone calls at all times of day and night from paramedics / police when that was going on). Plus she’s a smoker and had a house fire in the last year (hence being in a rental flat)… no cause found by the fire brigade but I wonder if a combination of lit cigarettes plus being drunk was to blame). So I think I knew anyway that her living with us was an absolute no (and I’m really worried about how she’ll manage in assisted living / if she will drink there) but tend to end up feeling hideously guilty after conversations with my mum where she tells me how hurtful I’m being..

so, sorry for the drip feed but it has genuinely helped to know that the majority think I’m not being unreasonable even in the best possible version of our circumstances (my mum has very little insight into her behaviour when drunk and will often deny it all)

When you say no cause found by the fire brigade are you saying they know it was an accidental fire but they can't find where it started , but they know it wasn't an electric fault or something like that ?
If it was a cigarette set light to a sofa or something then they can usually find some evidence I think, but if damage was too extensive then u guess it might be impossible .

By the way I am not doubting you at all and I am almost sure I know what you mean but just checking if possible xx

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 14/11/2022 13:27

Also that was a very warranted drip feed so you could see balanced responses before highlighting the alcohol dependency

My alcohol dependant mother sold her house and gave some money to my brother so he could buy a house big enough for him, SIL and mum; despite my saying when asked that I really didn't think it was a good idea, knowing my mother.

I was right, it wasn't a good idea. It damn near broke them up. Don't do it.

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 14/11/2022 13:28

gamerchick · 14/11/2022 13:22

There's no fucking way I would foist myself on my kids. Never. We didn't and our kids didn't ask to be born. There is absolutely no obligation later on.

Keep pushing it be supported living OP. Dont be manipulated. Tell her this is her own option or a care home.

@stopbeeping Children can't give their parents away either. It is not her job to 'nurture' her mother, that is the job of a mother to their child, the OP has a child of her own to nurture, and nurture does not usually include exposure to a volatile alcoholic. It's not about it being 'hard' or 'grating' - it is asking the OP to expose herself and her child to trauma.

StopStartStop · 14/11/2022 13:32

OP, don't do it. I'm a much-supported mother of an adult daughter but we will never be living together. Lockdown was enough! Supported housing nearby is a great solution.

LookItsMeAgain · 14/11/2022 13:33

Cowardlytiger · 14/11/2022 09:33

Nope no siblings (have spent the last 18 months especially desperately wishing I did have siblings to share some of this with!)
We’ve found an assisted living place for her very close to us but she’s now saying she thinks she might be too anxious to manage the journey there to look at it (and they won’t let her move in without her seeing it first to check she likes it)…

I'm so sorry about the loss of your Dad and her husband.

In relation to the last bit in the above post - tell her it's not optional. She has to go to see this place. It's not just for her mental wellbeing, it's for yours as well.
You need to know that she is safe.
You need to know that she is being looked after
This isn't just about her anymore.

Then bring her to see the place.

I hope you manage to get the situation sorted for yourself and for your mum.

frostyfingers · 14/11/2022 13:33

We had my mum live with us after she’d had a stroke which triggered dementia. Not for great long periods, the longest was 8 weeks, but even when she came on short visits of a week or so it was very difficult. We have 3 children who were at school, both of us were working (me p/t at home) plus animals and she absolutely hated the way we rushed around doing stuff all the time. She wanted me to be with her all the time and although I did my best and stopped and had coffee breaks and meals with her it meant I stayed up late catching up on work. None of us were happy and if she’d been here full time I think it would have caused major problems between all of us - children, DH, myself and my mum.

Eventually another stroke meant she needed physical nursing care which we managed at her home for a while, and then she had to move into a care home. I hated her being there, she hated being there but the alternative was even worse - in several of her more lucid moments she said “I don’t want you looking after me”.

In your case I think you’re absolutely right, you would probably destroy your family dynamic and you’ll end up miserable. It’s bloody hard whatever you do, guilt is the overriding feeling when it comes to caring for your parents.

Daffodilsandtuplips · 14/11/2022 13:35

Cowardlytiger · 14/11/2022 09:33

Nope no siblings (have spent the last 18 months especially desperately wishing I did have siblings to share some of this with!)
We’ve found an assisted living place for her very close to us but she’s now saying she thinks she might be too anxious to manage the journey there to look at it (and they won’t let her move in without her seeing it first to check she likes it)…

You’re going to have to be firmer with her, the hour long phone calls have to stop, I don’t mean don’t talk to her, I mean reduce the length of time she’s on the phone.
Tell her you’ll pick her up to visit the assisted living place, “Mum doesn’t have to worry, just think mum, you’ll be closer to us, it’ll be much easier on me and far less stressful for us both”