To think DD’s friends parents don't need to know about DP’s past? *potential TW?*

[xidol70080]

I'm pretty sure I posted about DP before when he was first released from prison and MN was helpful then but I've since deleted that account so I can't find the thread, some of you may remember.

Some background. I was with DDs dad (now 4) for a few months at 16, I then found out I was pregnant and we stayed together. On his 17th birthday, he was drunk and stole his dads car and crashed, his best friend sadly died and he was sent to prison. I split up with him as I was very angry and upset. He was released from prison in late 2020 (when I posted on here) and I took DD to see him, he was very remorseful and told me he wanted to be in DD’s life. I moved in with him and his dad in at the start of lockdown so DD could build a relationship with her dad and so I could get some support as I don't see my own family.

Me and him got back together in March 2021, me and DD stayed living with him and his dad, he got a job and everything relationship wise has been good. Me, him and DD moved into our own house this summer (we were saving whilst living at his dads).

DD started reception in September and has had a few playdates, one of my friends has never been happy with DD having contact with DP let alone us getting back together, so we don't talk much but this evening she messaged and asked how DD is getting on at school, has she made friends etc so I told her she has. She then asked if I mentioned DP’s past to her friends’ parents, I said no and she has said if she had a child, she'd want to know so she could judge whether to allow her child around him. Some of the parents have met him and have made their judgements without knowing.

AIBU in thinking they don't need to know something that happened when DP was still legally classed as a child, he's now 21, and it's been 5 years since it happened. Or if you were her friends parents would you want to know?

Absolutely agree.
I thought like that as a young teen. Those girls having sex with policemen for £5 were stupid. Why not just say no and stay at home doing their homework?
Those boys driving to parties in stolen cars, stupid and evil.
Those kids doing the same drugs that their parents do knowing how it’s going to wreck their lives, stupid and reckless.

Then I grew up and learnt, it all stems from hopelessness. You grow up and learn empathy and that teens who have endured horrific circumstances as children are not likely to be making the correct decisions leading to them being successful adults.
Then of course, there are those who never evolve to learn this.

You have no clue how deprivation can affect children and make them believe they have nothing to lose and no reason to think of others.

Stop being sanctimonious.

“No reason to think of others” sorry but that’s such a gross attitude, to excuse this behaviour. Men who beat their wives are much more likely to have grown up around violence yet we never ever minimise and excuse that behaviour, so why minimise this?

And if someone’s behaviour makes them a danger to the public they belong in prison, it doesn’t matter how hard their life was.

@saraclara thanks, I'd read op's posts but somehow missed that paragraph. In that case I think there's no duty to share. I've never done a background check on dc's friends' parents!

" It is horrendous that children grown up in poverty and in cycles of abuse. but pointing to worse things doesn’t make stealing a car, driving drunk and killing someone okay."

It doesn't make it OK, which is why he was convicted and went to prison and served time. But it does speak to the journey that can lead to someone making a really poor choice and it can help others to understand why that poor choice was made in the first place. That's why we can separate person from behaviour- the action the choice the behaviour was wrong, but I can completely see why a 17 year old would do something like that thinking its just a bit of fun and not fully and completely understanding the consequences which are what he'll have to live with for the rest of his life. Depending on where you live it's a cultural norm for young people, particularly in the city I live in. As a youth worker I meet young people who have been driver or passenger more often than I meet young people that have never been on a joyride. And that's not solely a poverty issue. I grew up going to a good school etc and the kids who were really wealthy got bought cars for turning 18 were some of the worst for speeding (really excessively like over 100mph), using their phones while driving and drink driving. That was purely entitled behaviour which is different and speaks a lot to the persons character. I'd tend to be more sympathetic to a young person who feels completely disillusioned and like nothing matters going out and seeing it as a bit of craic with their mates who are all at it, than some wealthy kid who just wants to show off in the new car they were bought because they're used to their parents fixing everything for them and aren't used to consequences.

@Cw112

Dont you think there is a difference between having sympathy and leaving your child in their care?

I'd only want to know about him if there was any indication he was a risk to children. In that case my child would be going nowhere near him. But that's not the case from what you've said.

Exactly - this. The nature of the offence doesn't make him a risk to my child so it's less of a concern to me.

The OP's partner was 17 and did really stupid while drunk which ended in tragedy.

I assume the friend who died in the accident got in the car willingly, so he did not as some people are saying ''kill his friend'' which would suggest he purposely decided to murder that person and crash the car.

He served his sentence and there is no safeguarding reasons to make people with children aware of what happened as there is no indication he is a threat to anyone at this stage.

OP your friend is not a friend. She is just trying to cause trouble and I would distance myself from her.

If your partner is ever likely to be in a position of needing to drive any of DD’s friends then I believe that you absolutely should inform their parents. He has been convicted and to prison for an extreme driving related offence and therefore it should be up to those parents whether they are happy for their children to be driven by him. Sweeping it under the carpet would be very wrong in this instance.

I think part of parenting is about trusting the judgment of those we leave our children with. Given his actions (in the fairly recent past) I would say it would be a lot worse for your DD if this came out at a later date and you had not mentioned it and left him in a position of trust with driving children for example. In this case the consequences for your DD would be worse as parents would likely be wondering what else you had kept quiet and your judgement, and would likely be keeping friends from play dates etc at your house.

Someone who physically assaults someone smaller and more vulnerable than themselves to make themselves feel better is not what this is and not what I’m talking about.

Also, having read through this whole thread with great interest, anyone else think @ilyx is performing a bit of puppetry on here?

Excuse me? What a weirdo you are. I’m sorry that I’m anti drink driving. Apparently on Mumsnet this is controversial. Sadly I think about 20% of people drink drive and that’s why I’m getting backlash, really sad lack of morals you have.

I'd only want to know about him if there was any indication he was a risk to children.

you don’t think an immature young person who does dangerous things without thinking of the consequences is a potential risk when looking after children?

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you are saying - and I accept that I had a very sheltered childhood - and I grateful for that.

but understanding why some teens behave in a reckless and dangerous way doesn’t mean I will truest them in their early twenties with the care of my child. I might employ him and accept that people can change - but sending you child unsupervised into his home is on a much higher level of trust.

everyone is different. Some people can change in their twenties and thirties a lot - but some don’t. I truly hope this young man is now a truly reformed character. But would I risk it when I don’t have to? No. Would I be concerned about the values being taught in that household, the types of friends coming and going, the level of good judgement? Yes I would

You have no clue how deprivation can affect children and make them believe they have nothing to lose and no reason to think of others.

I HATE when people post like this on MN, You don't know what a clue she has!

I grew up in a deprived place too, and it doesn't make me minimise this at all. Yes, there were people who stole cars and drove drunk and got into drugs and crime...but there more people who didn't, who just as poor and just as deprived.

Lecturing others as if you're the fucking oracle on growing up poor, and pretending that we're all so poor and stupid that we couldn't do better is patronising bullshit. Yes, lads on my street grew up to be criminals, or didn't grow up at all, but my sister is a lawyer, my brothers are teachers and businessman, I have three postgrads and a professional job.
Coming from a sink estate doesn't mean its somehow not his fault that he killed someone!

This is disingenuous. There's a huge difference between deliberate violence like assault, and a reckless young man behind the wheel of a car - he could as easily been killed as his friend. Five years is a long time when the start and end points are 17 - 21, he's done his time and learned the most awful lesson, now allow him to move on. Jump all over him if he makes a move towards drinking and driving, but until then, cut him some slack.

You need to calm down.

To the posters shocked I let him around DD not long after he was released from prison, what did you expect me to do? It wouldn't have been fair to punish her by not letting her see/have a relationship with her father. He is a good dad and probably more involved than some dads who haven't been to prison. DD has also probably helped him in a way so he didn't reoffend etc.

If some of you aren't happy about how short his sentence was, that isn't up to DP and I don't know what you all expect him to do about it. It was probably short due to his age, good behaviour in prison, the fact he was remorseful from the start and pleaded guilty - all of those factors.

DP has spoken to some of the parents as he's picked DD up from school a few times, and they've decided to send their here so they do like him/aren't worried. He doesn't drive so that wouldn't be a problem anyway, I drive but I haven't found a reason to need to drive DD’s friends places yet as their parents either bring them here, I take DD to theirs or we meet somewhere but of course that might change when DD gets older.

@Fattoushi would you like me to link the millions of peer reviewed articles there are on deprivation and criminality in adolescents? Or would that be a bit too close to being a lecture?

Given your update OP plus some of the respondes on here which have surprised me, I'm even more convinced you should say nothing.
Hes started to get to know some of the parents and should it come out, hopefully they'll see it in the context of the man they have met rather than some theoretical dangerous criminal that people on here are imagining.
If it gets out and some of the reactions on here are reflected in real life, which they may be, you can cross that when you come to it. No point looking for trouble.
Good luck to you and your DP. He's paid an awful price for his teenage recklessness and it's good he has you in his life.

Let’s be honest about the ‘he doesn’t drive stuff. I doubt this is a choice he’s made based on what he’s done.

There may have been a driving ban. He was only 17 when he chose to drink drive, you can only just begin to learn at that age. But then he went to prison so no opportunity to learn. Then he came out of prison and presumably wouldn’t be rolling in cash. I doubt he has a string of GCSEs to his name, so is most likely working in a very low paid job. Learning to drive is expensive. Cars are expensive. Insurance is expensive. My sons insurance at 19 is £1.5k, without a drink driving conviction. Let’s not pretend he doesn’t drive because he can’t face getting behind the wheel after killing his friend. The likelihood is, he would drive if he hadn’t messed his life up so much that it’s now unaffordable.

Your partner chose to steal his fathers car. He planned it. He thought about it, he talked about it. He was told not to do it by you. He told you he wouldn’t. You were carrying his child. He did it anyway because he thought it would be funny. He did his time in prison, had no counselling, came out of prison and you wanted to get back with him, a man who can’t possibly have been rehabilitated, because he’d had no counselling so hadn’t talked about it with professionals. This shows extremely bad judgement on your part as a mum. And naivety, which is still coming through loud and clear on your posts.

He lied to you. He drunk drove. He put so many people at risk that day because he thought it would be funny. He didn’t go to prison for long, didn’t have counselling but you thought he was a completely different person, good enough to be around you child and have a relationship with. It’s madness.

and you know all this to be a factual account of the situation do you?

An awful lot of assumptions there.