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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To sat no to MIL at Christmas

236 replies

Hyggerama · 12/11/2022 21:55

She is visiting us just now, before today we hadn't seen her since the beginning of 2020 when DD was a baby. DD will be 3 soon and we also have baby DS. Dh and MIL are usually LC.

MIL is all over the kids, quite literally. She basically follows DD around as DD plays with her toys. She hovers over DS as he's playing on the floor and tries to get his attention all the time by making clicking noises. I took DS out to play in the swing, MIL wanted to come with, which was fine. I popped out through our gate to say a quick hi to a neighbour who was in his garden, she followed me all the way! After playing in the garden I was walking towards our bins carrying DS to put something small in, she actually followed me to the bins rather than going inside the house.

All of this is made more awkward by the fact that MIL doesn't speak much English (Has lived in the UK for 30+ years) so rather than trying to talk to the children she does this physical following, hovering and making weird clicking noises.

She doesn't know DS's name, she called him 'the little boy'. Small mercies, DS doesn't like it when she tries to hold him and starts crying, DD refused to give her a goodnight hug when she asked. I'm neither encouraging or stopping the children from interacting with her and I let them just do what they feel comfortable with.

So AIBU, DH said he might invite her for Christmas, which would mean a minimum 4 day stay because of the trains. He's not being the best host atm, he's playing on his phone and doing work stuff whilst she's sitting in the living room with us. I would happily accommodate a 2 day stay but 4 days would just be too much for me, and probably the DC too!

I've said that she can visit after Christmas when the trains are running normally. She has a son and lots of close friends in her hometown so she wouldn't be alone.

OP posts:
Fattoushi · 14/11/2022 10:55

I am sorry - but you do not have to be "thrilled" - we all do things with our families that we might have preferred not to, but we do them out of kindness and thoughtfulness.

But only the OP...the MIL goes away with friends every time OP visits MILs home town, but its OP who needs to be more kind and thoughtful?

WTF is up with this thread? IT's like MIL is perfect and can do no wrong, against all info to the contrary.

LadyKenya · 14/11/2022 10:56

TheLadyofShalott1 · 13/11/2022 05:52

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why so many of you commenting here are talking in such a very unlikeable, judgemental, and obtuse manner. Is it because you totally believe the OP's version, even though we all know that the human condition makes most of us exaggerate when we want to both make an (often unsavoury) point, and have as many people as possible agree with us?

The culture that the OP's MiL comes from is probably so different to the Western European one, that even if they learned to speak our language when living in this country, but without them being in a community full of people from their own culture, they might struggle to be happy. Most of us have grown up in a country where women are allowed to be strong, allowed to have, and to get to the top of any profession we have chosen for ourselves. Yes, we might think that we are still treated badly by many men in our own culture, but I promise you, that compared to the women from the different cultures I am thinking about, we already have almost total freedom and power.

The OP's poor MiL probably comes from a culture where very few men consider women to have any value whatsoever, except to be used for sex, to have children, cook and clean, and really just be there to look after and obey the males in their families. Many are not allowed to have any form of education, and certainly don't have either the confidence, or the expectation of success, to beg their husbands, fathers, brothers, and adult sons, to let them do anything different, such as learn another language. So, for the millions of women who still live like that, even if they haven't lived in their country of birth for over 30 years, it may well have not even crossed their minds that they could (or may be allowed to) learn another language.

The OP's husband might have been low contact with his mother because he may feel that she is no longer of much use to him, as he now has his own wife to fulfil the roles of both a mother and a wife. So many men from the cultures I am thinking of still feel that females are at the very best, second class citizens, and that their whole role is to serve the males in their society. Of course in the Western World, those men have had to modify their outward behaviours to a certain extent, if they wanted to attract women from cultures other than their own, but I honestly believe that for at least some of them, deep down, they still have very little respect for women. Of course I don't think that all men from those cultures still think and act like that, but I do think that a significant number of them still do, even if they hide it well.

So to judge an older lady, who may well still live in a culture like that - and if she does she almost certainly has little or no
self-confidence - for not learning our language, and for not pushing to see her Grandchildren, who she obviously adores, and also for maybe feeling that she is not wanted or needed by her son's new family, is just nasty in my opinion. The OP seems to be judging her MiL against Western women, and how we behave and react. I am just very glad that I was born into, and that my ancesters (at least the recent ones that I know about) were also born into, our Western European culture. I think that the OP's attitude, and apparent lack of compassion, or empathy, for her MiL, is actually quite horrible (eg she is happy when her children - unintentionally- hurt their poor Grandmothers feelings).

You have made so many valid points in this post. Some of the comments on here are just unnecessarily thoughtless, with no real understanding at all about the barriers some people may face in life.

Mischance · 14/11/2022 12:46

There is nothing to stop your OH spending time with her with the children there, engaging in some play/activities with them together and facilitating them getting to know each other in a gentle way..... "Why don't you give that toy to Grandma?" etc. He needs to step up. I would be furious with him.

When my FIL used to visit, my OH, who didn't get on with him, used to duck out and leave me to deal with him. It made me so mad!

Hyggerama · 14/11/2022 13:07

@TheLadyofShalott1 and you can with absolutely certainty inform me that my husband's mother doesn't speak fluent English because she's been abused and grown up in an oppressive culture, you don't even know what culture that is?

If she's divorced and has lived with her dc or on her own for a long time. What has been her barrier to learning?

OP posts:
Fattoushi · 14/11/2022 14:35

OP, MN has decided they know far more about you and your MIL than you do. I'd give up if I were you!

Soozikinzii · 14/11/2022 14:44

FinnysTail · 12/11/2022 22:27

Why haven’t your dc learnt to speak their fathers cultural language as well as their mothers? Surely parents provide their dc with knowledge of both their birth cultures?

I was going to say this . It will be great for your children to be bilingual . Such a big advantage in life and good for the brain. I am a covid GP and it has been difficult making the GP/GC bonds at this time I think weve only just about caught up . Although I do agree 2 days is enough to stay with family at any time of year for me Xmas or not !

Labnehi · 14/11/2022 15:05

Soozikinzii · 14/11/2022 14:44

I was going to say this . It will be great for your children to be bilingual . Such a big advantage in life and good for the brain. I am a covid GP and it has been difficult making the GP/GC bonds at this time I think weve only just about caught up . Although I do agree 2 days is enough to stay with family at any time of year for me Xmas or not !

OP's kids are already bilingual, on her side. OP's husband has chosen not to teach them his language, and he has that right.

DeborahVance · 14/11/2022 15:13

I've no idea why you're getting quite such a hard time here. Your husband is the problem, if he wants his mother here then he should support her. He sounds like an absolute arse in the way he is undermining your

DeborahVance · 14/11/2022 15:13

*you

Hyggerama · 14/11/2022 15:14

@Fattoushi I do agree. I particularly love the fact that it's MY fault my DC are only learning 2 languages. We live in the UK and MIL has had decades to learn without any barriers, she's had years and years of English lessons, but obviously it's my fault she's struggling to communicate with her grandchildren.

She's not a bad person but I feel uncomfortable hosting her. I have the right to have feelings and opinions, even if she is my children's grandmother.

Not that it matters that she's got a 9 year old grandson (DN), whom she's seen 3 times since he was born. Granny of the year anyway!

OP posts:
DameHelena · 14/11/2022 15:31

Your DH needs to step up and host his mother.
Tell him clearly and calmly that you'll be going out and doing things (with and without the DC) and so he'll be 'in charge of' his mother. As a pp said, things like 'I’m nipping out for a bit/going for a bath/having an early night… tomorrow I’m going for a long walk with my friend so you and MIL are looking after the kids.

And if he says you're a horrible person, you are allowed to push back. Get angry with him! Tell him straight, no, you just need him to take his turn with his mother.

SMrs · 14/11/2022 15:42

I can relate to this with my FIL. He doesn't bother very much with us or our children. He even has forgotten my husbands birthday and normally calls him a few days early or late each year to wish him happy birthday.

He does the same in that he is really attentive when with the kids (1 or 2 times a year). I do encourage them to be respectful and engage in the relationship and I talk about him coming a few days prior to prepare them.

I find my husband feels awkward in his presence so normally I'm a good buffer as we can just do general chit chat.

That being said, I wouldn't want to share my Xmas day with him if it was to stay over for a few nights. Sounds selfish, but Christmas is really special to us and I've made a vow to not spend it with people who don't make the effort year round as I spent years doing that in my 20s and 30s!

Xmas day will just be us this year and I'm really happy about it

Hyggerama · 14/11/2022 22:00

@DameHelena damn right he does! I've developed a plan of action and presented it to H. Basically, he does not want to spend any alone time with his own mother because he finds her awkward. He said himself that he doesn't like spending time with her, so his idea is to use the children and I as a buffer so he doesn't actually have to host her. Not on my watch...

Here's my plan
H is working on Christmas Eve so I'm spending a nice mini Christmas with the kids at home. MIL arrives in the afternoon.

Christmas Day we have to just spend at home, some walks and lots of TV. Me playing with kiddos in a different room if necessary. H will sort out all food.

Boxing day I take DC out for a playdate with my friend and her dc, H will take MIL out shopping, for lunch etc. H and MIL go to see a panto together in the afternoon whilst I stay at home with DC. He doesn't like this idea because he'd be alone with her. He tried to say he'd take DD with them but the panto will clash with nap time or bed time, plus she wouldn't want to go without me if she knows I'm at home. He wants DD as a buffer, not happening because he has invited her so he needs to step up.

27th MIL goes home

H's face when he realised he would actually have to host! 🤣

OP posts:
GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 14/11/2022 22:02

he's playing on his phone and doing work stuff whilst she's sitting in the living room with us

You have a DH problem. He needs to talk to his mother.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 14/11/2022 22:03

Haha just saw your update. Nice one! But carry it through.

LookItsMeAgain · 14/11/2022 22:08

Make sure those panto tickets are bought or he'll have an excuse "oh they were sold out" or some such.

I love that he doesn't even want to spend time alone with her. Why the actual does he think that you'd welcome spending time with her then? I mean really!!!

frazzledasarock · 14/11/2022 22:34

Good for you, that’s a perfect plan of action. The host her son should damn well be spending time with his mother, whom he invited.

carry it through. I bet he won’t be inviting her for quite so long after being forced to spend time with his own mother.

god I hate men who think they’re the dogs bollox for inviting their insufferable parents to the family home and then avoiding them completely leaving the actual work of cleaning, feeding and entertaining to their wives.

make him get her room ready too, she gets what he’s got ready for her.

Hyggerama · 14/11/2022 22:38

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy oh I will. The boxing day morning playdate has already been set up. H tried to argue that MIL is coming over to be with the DC but that doesn't mean it has to be all the time every day!

I think he might be rethinking this whole visit now...

OP posts:
TheLadyofShalott1 · 15/11/2022 03:16

Hyggerama · 14/11/2022 13:07

@TheLadyofShalott1 and you can with absolutely certainty inform me that my husband's mother doesn't speak fluent English because she's been abused and grown up in an oppressive culture, you don't even know what culture that is?

If she's divorced and has lived with her dc or on her own for a long time. What has been her barrier to learning?

Hi Hyggerama, I don't remember saying anywhere that your MiL was abused and grew up in an oppressive cultute. I certainly did not day that I was 100% sure of it.

I was trying to glean from your posts why she might be behaving in a way that was so alien to how you thought a grandmother should be, and my suggestion was that she may come from a very different culture from yours, and that if she does, it is quite possible that neither of you understand why the other one behaves in the way that they do.

As you say, I have no idea what her living arrangements have been - except that she has lived in a foreign country (to her) for 30 years, has possibly never had her DiL (you) visit her in the town she has lived in for 30 years because - maybe conveniently - she has never been at home when you visit, and apparently, even though you have to pay somewhere to stay overnight when visiting her, you never actually check that she will be at home when you do visit?

In a recent post of yours @Hyggerama you said

"... she's had years and years of English lessons..."

I speak 1 language fluently OP, I can communicate reasonably well in another language, and I can understand bits and pieces of a language we were taught at school, but that I didn't try to get a qualification in. All of the languages that I know something of, come mainly from Latin, and to a lessor extent, Ancient Greek, with a bit of Norse, and snippets from many other languages.

As we have already established, and therefore agreed upon, I hardly know anything about your MiL, but if I may use as an example a theoretical 'fact', that she comes from either Asia major or minor (you are quite right, I should just say Asia rather than Asia Major, however colloquially I hope that it will help more people understand what I mean), your MiL would have as her mother language a very different structural criteria to my own. Which of course, in very general terms, means that unlike me, and the languages I have tried to learn, your MiL's (theoretical) genealogical history, combined with her now living in a continent with languages that mainly follow a very different linguistic typology, may well have led to her inability to learn English.

Yes, of course, millions of people have managed to overcome the extra barriers caused by different linguistic types, but then there are maybe millions of more people that are never able to break those barriers down. After all it is not just about learning what, say, the French word for table is, and what the Japanese word for table is - I really hope that it isn't also "table"! Very different cultures, histories, personal upbringings, ones own confidence etc etc, will all play a part in our own abilities to learn anything, including another language.

Is there any academic subject that you are particularly bad at OP? One of my parent's was excellent at Maths, unfortunately, for several reasons, I was useless at it. I quite diligently built up a 20ft tall, and 15ft wide, metaphorical brick wall against maths/my parent(?), and it has only been in more recent years that with the help of a good friend, I have been able to start demolishing that wall - I very much doubt that I will be able to raze it completely. You have told us OP that your MiL spent many years having English lessons, which I think she should be commended for, and thanked for, for making such a tremendous effort, and commiserated with for just not being able to master such a foreign concept!

My DMiL couldn't swim, she was a very intelligent and determined lady, but she had built her own brick wall when it came to swimming. A person who has the condition Dyslexia, may very much want to be able to read and write with ease, and their desire may help them learn and perservere with all sorts of techniques, and help. If they don't succeed to the amount they want to, or heaven forbid their Son or DiL thinks they should have been able to, does that mean that they should be looked down on because of it, or ridiculed, or punished? I am trying not to judge you for judging your MiL, for being what I consider is very unkind to your MiL.

If I judge you then I am no better than you, and I am afraid that I do indeed judge the things you have said in your posts about your MiL, and in quite a few of your replys to people who have similar views to mine. I hope that you have at least questioned yourself about whether there could be any truths or insights in what any of us have said. I do indeed spend quite a lot of time trying to understand how other people tick, and what good and/or enriching lessons I can learn from them.

user1477391263 · 15/11/2022 04:33

I love how, in this thread,

It's apparently the OP's responsibility to make MIL (who her own son admits is a difficult person and not easy to be around) comfortable all day long, even though useless husband is the one who invited her AND it's his mum AND she only really speaks HIS language.

It's apparently the OP's responsibility to learn the MIL's language, but not MIL's responsibility to learn some English (because language-learning is simultaneously so easy that the OP can learn it, just like that, alongside childrearing and everything else while living in the UK, AND so hard that MIL can't possibly be expected to manage a bit of broken conversation after decades of lessons).

It's apparently the OP's responsibility to make sure her children learn Husband's language, even though it's HIS bloody language and she is ALREADY getting her kids bilingual in English and her other, different language. (Trust me, trilingualism is hard and takes a lot of commitment and organization by both parents).

Hope the visit goes OK, OP. Stay busy, keep out of the house, tell DH to get off his phone or you'll "accidentally" leave it out in the back garden in the rain.

GADDay · 15/11/2022 06:23

Hyggerama · 14/11/2022 22:00

@DameHelena damn right he does! I've developed a plan of action and presented it to H. Basically, he does not want to spend any alone time with his own mother because he finds her awkward. He said himself that he doesn't like spending time with her, so his idea is to use the children and I as a buffer so he doesn't actually have to host her. Not on my watch...

Here's my plan
H is working on Christmas Eve so I'm spending a nice mini Christmas with the kids at home. MIL arrives in the afternoon.

Christmas Day we have to just spend at home, some walks and lots of TV. Me playing with kiddos in a different room if necessary. H will sort out all food.

Boxing day I take DC out for a playdate with my friend and her dc, H will take MIL out shopping, for lunch etc. H and MIL go to see a panto together in the afternoon whilst I stay at home with DC. He doesn't like this idea because he'd be alone with her. He tried to say he'd take DD with them but the panto will clash with nap time or bed time, plus she wouldn't want to go without me if she knows I'm at home. He wants DD as a buffer, not happening because he has invited her so he needs to step up.

27th MIL goes home

H's face when he realised he would actually have to host! 🤣

I think the Hygge has left the building.

Totally get that you don't want Granny around. That's fine. Would not be my way of doing things bit hey - just tell her to piss off she isn't welcome. You come across as so damn miserable and controlling. I feel sorry for the whole family.

Every minute of Christmas planned to the minute - your DH sent off on his own with his mum. Sounds like a shit time to me. If a kid can't break the nap routine at Christmas, well that's just odd.

Your level of uptightness isn't normal - would it be ourrageous to ask if you are OK?

ImAvingOops · 15/11/2022 07:49

@TheLadyofShalott1 why should someone be thanked for going to lessons to learn the language of the country they've lived in for 30 years?
Its basic good manners to try.
Personally I think it should be a legal requirement for people moving to England to learn English.

LookItsMeAgain · 15/11/2022 08:30

ImAvingOops · 15/11/2022 07:49

@TheLadyofShalott1 why should someone be thanked for going to lessons to learn the language of the country they've lived in for 30 years?
Its basic good manners to try.
Personally I think it should be a legal requirement for people moving to England to learn English.

I have no problem with your final statement there @ImAvingOops , just so long as you also agree that all of the British ex-pats that have retired to Spain or France should be legally required to learn Spanish or French when they move there.

DameHelena · 15/11/2022 08:33

Hyggerama · 14/11/2022 22:00

@DameHelena damn right he does! I've developed a plan of action and presented it to H. Basically, he does not want to spend any alone time with his own mother because he finds her awkward. He said himself that he doesn't like spending time with her, so his idea is to use the children and I as a buffer so he doesn't actually have to host her. Not on my watch...

Here's my plan
H is working on Christmas Eve so I'm spending a nice mini Christmas with the kids at home. MIL arrives in the afternoon.

Christmas Day we have to just spend at home, some walks and lots of TV. Me playing with kiddos in a different room if necessary. H will sort out all food.

Boxing day I take DC out for a playdate with my friend and her dc, H will take MIL out shopping, for lunch etc. H and MIL go to see a panto together in the afternoon whilst I stay at home with DC. He doesn't like this idea because he'd be alone with her. He tried to say he'd take DD with them but the panto will clash with nap time or bed time, plus she wouldn't want to go without me if she knows I'm at home. He wants DD as a buffer, not happening because he has invited her so he needs to step up.

27th MIL goes home

H's face when he realised he would actually have to host! 🤣

Well done, OP!

MichelleScarn · 15/11/2022 08:34

GADDay · 15/11/2022 06:23

I think the Hygge has left the building.

Totally get that you don't want Granny around. That's fine. Would not be my way of doing things bit hey - just tell her to piss off she isn't welcome. You come across as so damn miserable and controlling. I feel sorry for the whole family.

Every minute of Christmas planned to the minute - your DH sent off on his own with his mum. Sounds like a shit time to me. If a kid can't break the nap routine at Christmas, well that's just odd.

Your level of uptightness isn't normal - would it be ourrageous to ask if you are OK?

Am sure @Hyggerama is perfectly OK. (But probably so grateful for your condescending 'concern')
So all of this is her fault and she's your villain?
The MIL is a poor, defenceless hard done to victim and the DH is not even mentioned. Just by being female its on OP to manage everything?