To sat no to MIL at Christmas

[Hyggerama]

She is visiting us just now, before today we hadn't seen her since the beginning of 2020 when DD was a baby. DD will be 3 soon and we also have baby DS. Dh and MIL are usually LC.

MIL is all over the kids, quite literally. She basically follows DD around as DD plays with her toys. She hovers over DS as he's playing on the floor and tries to get his attention all the time by making clicking noises. I took DS out to play in the swing, MIL wanted to come with, which was fine. I popped out through our gate to say a quick hi to a neighbour who was in his garden, she followed me all the way! After playing in the garden I was walking towards our bins carrying DS to put something small in, she actually followed me to the bins rather than going inside the house.

All of this is made more awkward by the fact that MIL doesn't speak much English (Has lived in the UK for 30+ years) so rather than trying to talk to the children she does this physical following, hovering and making weird clicking noises.

She doesn't know DS's name, she called him 'the little boy'. Small mercies, DS doesn't like it when she tries to hold him and starts crying, DD refused to give her a goodnight hug when she asked. I'm neither encouraging or stopping the children from interacting with her and I let them just do what they feel comfortable with.

So AIBU, DH said he might invite her for Christmas, which would mean a minimum 4 day stay because of the trains. He's not being the best host atm, he's playing on his phone and doing work stuff whilst she's sitting in the living room with us. I would happily accommodate a 2 day stay but 4 days would just be too much for me, and probably the DC too!

I've said that she can visit after Christmas when the trains are running normally. She has a son and lots of close friends in her hometown so she wouldn't be alone.

I really don’t see what your mil has done so very wrong. I understand she’s annoying when benchmarking her against an assertive and engaging mature woman, who is fluent in English. However, it sounds as though she’s a product of her own culture and upbringing.

What did your mil do so very badly that your dh is LC? Do you realise that by not engaging with her in front of the children or explaining to her what her grandmother is doing is actually hostile and a continuation of LC? Do you see your husband is also continuing LC with her in your own home? Your children are taking your lead. They can sense there is something wrong and are reacting by copying the LC.

I am not surprised she has cried. Or that you have seen so very little of her. It must be taking a great deal of courage to visit you all. She sounds very anxious and completely out of her comfort zone with a son, who hardly acknowledges her existence and a dil, who is not facilitating a relationship with her gc’s despite her desperately trying to make a connection with them.

Please try to show some kindness to this woman. All you need to say things like ‘granny is trying to do x’ or ‘Granny wants a hug good night. Would you like to give her a hug? No? Ok. Blow her a kiss then’.

My DD’s grandfather desperately wanted to have a connection with her but was too ill and had lost the ability to speak - motor neurones. Darn right I tried my best to facilitate that by talking to dd about him and how to act around him. That in no way means forcing her. I never forced dd and she really struggled. But she knew everyone was on her side.

I hear where you're coming from: irritating house guests are draining. But I also feel sorry for her. She isn't natural with the kids, but it seems like she wants to be close to them.
There are ways to foster a better relationship with them -the kids will follow your and your dh's lead if you encourage them to do activities with her. But it's up to you how much you feel like making an effort.
I get that mil has made little effort but longterm it would benefit everyone if your kids had a good relationship with her.

The Op's post comes from a position of privilege whereby she has no interest in the mil's culture. The op regards her own is the dominant one & her kids are more familiar with it.

I've seen this in mixed relationships before whereby one culture is more dominant than the other. The children identify with one culture more and the second one slowly is faded out.

Buying her a subscription to English lessons is insensitive because it’s not really a gift. It’s a way of telling your mil that you think she should learn English dressed up as a gift. Get her a proper gift at Christmas and treat the language issue as a separate thing to be addressed with care. My gp lived in an English speaking country for many years, at 30, and did not learn English. She was not really educated and had many fears if the world. I wish she had learnt to speak English but I think she would have been hurt by being given a ‘helpful’ English language course as a present. This is an issue to handle with care and for the OP to discuss with her husband

We don’t know her story. Maybe she was young and in an abusive relationship in the early years of being in England (or wherever OP lives) and wasn’t allowed to go to English classes. Or maybe she was 40 when she came here and it’s harder to learn a new language as you get older. You couldn’t learn online 30 years ago.

It seems quite suffocating to me, having someone following you around everywhere. That would annoy the fuck out of me. The clicking would too!

I also don't get the living in a different country for 30 years and not at least learning the basics of the language. I think that most people would at least pick something up in the first few years. I have friends that are bilingual and I ask them to teach me the basics of their language so that I can use it. I think it shows a sign of respect.

Similarly, if I visit a country where I don't know the language, I think it's respectful to speak their language much as possible and not presume or expect them to speak English to me.

It is mostly your DH's responsibility to host your MIL if you're not able to communicate with her and he is. I wouldn't want a Christmas visit either.

@Hyggerama

“She doesn't know DS's name, she called him 'the little boy'. Small mercies, DS doesn't like it when she tries to hold him and starts crying, DD refused to give her a goodnight hug when she asked“

what do u mean small mercies?

Just be nice to her op
it’s not hard

I would say oh yes she can visit if you stay off your fucking phone the entire time and actually interact with her instead of buggering off to play with your toys and leaving it all up to me

I’m not understanding some of the suggestions on this thread, especially the ones saying OP should learn MIL’s language and teach the children.

OP is ALREADY bilingual, AND has ensured the children are as well! Why does she need to learn a third language?!

This is completely on her husband. HE should be teaching the kids, if anyone, but has chosen not to. That’s completely on him. He sits on his phone, rather than engage his mother. He’s seemingly done nothing to make this visit work.

Why would the OP want a repeat on the holidays for even longer?

This is wholly on the relationship between the DH and his mother, imo. Expecting the OP to manage with a language barrier, with the MIL at her heels constantly is ridiculous.

Completely unreasonable and unfair to dump the situation on his wife and expect her to make it work.

Excellent post @TheLadyofShalott1

My parents came to the UK in the 70s and their speaking of English was never more than basic. And here’s why:

They both went to work as soon as they arrived, in factories. Long days, poor pay. My dad worked six and a half days a week, we never went on holiday. Their days were spent working and looking after their children, that’s it. This thread is not the place to talk about the casual racism they constantly encountered, or about how my mum was hounded out of one job for being Asian, suffice to say they felt safer within their own community.

They had some sympathetic, nice English friends who were lovely people. I could count them on one hand. My mum tried to have English lessons. I remember a woman coming round at weekends to help her. She just couldn’t do it, it was too hard, she was too tired. And others mocked her trying to learn, asking if she thought she was better than everyone else. She soon stopped.

I married a white, English man. My parents speak to him in their broken English. He hasn’t learnt one word of their language, not even hello, has no interest.

I haven’t taught my children my language as and I really regret it now. They are however, involved in their Asian culture wherever I can manage it.

OP doesn’t say where her MIL is from, or why her DH is LC. I think this is important as different cultures have different ideas of family means.

Absolutely agree OP’s DH should step up here. He should be facilitating the relationship between his DM and his children but also between his DM and OP.

A lovely thoughtful post LadyofShalott. You explained a lot, very well. I gained some insight & understanding I did not have before. so thank you for that.

——————-

My original advice still holds OP:

your mother in law should not be expected to learn English & your husband still needs to step up.

also, the suggestion to buy her some English lessons - it’s wrong. A brooch or locket that opens up with her grandchildren’s picture in it could make a lovely gift, for example. Make a friend of her.

I had a difficult mil, but in the end we were great mates, .and my children had 2 loving grandmothers. I wish the same for you.

She doesn't sound like she's doing much wrong, I think it's lovely she wants to spend Christmas with her son and his family. When your children are grown I imagine you wouldn't want to be excluded from Christmas with them because their partner says no. It doesn't have to be every year.

You aren't being unreasonable to say you don't want her there at Christmas. You and your DH are being rather unreasonable in not helping to create a relationship with the children while she's visiting now and trying. Your children are taking their cue from your behaviour. You don't say why your DH was low contact, but I don't know what you feel you gain from the trivial nastiness of walking away so she follows you, leaving her with the kids without props/ input, picking at her English skills etc. Maybe if you could break down why you're finding that exciting, it would help you to challenge whether that's appropriate (if so, why is she in your house?) or inappropriate (and if so, behave better).

@Tryagainforthethirdtime

I agree with your post. My grandmother tried to learn English but gave up- she was mostly illiterate and felt ashamed about that, and was extremely shy and anxious. She was a kind, beautiful person. She never really wanted to move to another country and I think she also had mental health struggles. It was a shame that she never learnt to speak English but I understand the reasons for it.

Why do't you suggest instead that DH takes the kids to her hometown/to stay with her and then he can take them to visit their uncle as well during the Christmas period. Then you don't have to keep hosting her and he has to actually pull his weight and the kids might actually bond better with her if you're not there.

I doubt he will though because he hasn't bothered to even introduce the kids to the language and you say he's LC with MIL despite suddenly wanting to invite her for Christmas (probably so he can look like a good son while you do all the work). I agree with others that the problem you have is a DH problem - and I doubt he'd take the kids anywhere on his own by the sounds of him.

So to address some of the points, and I understand where PPs are coming from, the reason I'm reserved around MIL stems back to newborn DD.

Dh had invited MIL to stay for a whole week without checking with me first when I was only 3 weeks postpartum after a very difficult labour and EMCS. She immediately took over DD to the point that I had to repeatedly ask to have her back in order to breastfeed her. She came into the bedroom in the middle of the night whilst I was trying to breastfeed DD so I was basically half naked. She was happily sitting on the sofa cuddling DD whilst I was serving her tea and lunch, cleaning and washing up etc. Dh had buggered off to work so I was left on my own with her and I felt very anxious about her possessiveness over MY newborn baby and her lack of boundaries.

Since that visit I've insisted on a rule that the main 'host' has to be present during the visit, I.e.if I invite my parents to visit I'm here the whole time so DH doesn't have to host.

We have visited MIL'S hometown but she's always been away with her friends. She lives in a small flat so we can't stay over, we've stayed in an Airbnb but as I said she's been away during our previous visits.

I've tried to be a polite host, I asked her to play with me and ds outside, offered her cups of tea, had some (limited) polite chit chat etc.

Ps. Dh left the garage door open and I went to close it whilst carrying DS, MIL followed me right up to the door for no apparent reason.

@Choconut I'm breastfeeding DS and DD wouldn't want to be away from me for that long (DH works long hours so I'm the main carer) so I don't think DH could take them on his own. I would prefer to visit MIL though so we wouldn't be hosting and it would be less intense to meet up with her for lunch etc.

As a grandmother I'm genuinely trying to see this from your point of view but to be honest, you sound just as suffocating as she does. You say that you or your DH have to be present during every visit, even with your own parents - are they not allowed any alone-time at all with their grandchildren, as well as DH's mum? Because I think a lot of grandparents would find that very upsetting. If they are elderly with poor mobility then yes I would understand, and sorry if I've missed that. If the language barrier worries you if your DH's mum is alone with kids, then most toddlers just want someone to play with their toys with them. I can understand more that you don't want DH's mum to be alone with them if it is the language barrier that bothers you but it sounds like you just don't want any of them to be hands-on grandparents, and that's a shame because it could actually work in your favour as well, not just theirs and your children's.

OP- you need to own it. You don't like her, don't want her in your home or in your children's lives.

She will know this and is no doubt horribly anxious in your home. Please don't make her endure Christmas in your house. Poor woman would probably have a nicer time at IHOP.

She doesn’t sound possessive she sounds like a loving grandmother who just wants to love those children and help you.

I don't think that's weird I think she sounds normal.

It's good that she wants a relationship with her grandchildren. You don't seem very kind.

I would invite her for a couple of days.

Lol. She sounds like a loving grandmother who acted apallingly when the first was a newborn and hasn't learned the second ones name?! Yes, shes grandma of the fecking year, isn;t she?

I feel sorry for her.

And once again I'm throwing up a silent prayer to whichever God is listening "please let my DS meet a DP that isn't awful"

I do sympathise with you from the point of view that it must be extremely difficult having a MIL you can't communicate with properly. I think the person you need to tackle is your DH - this is his mother. I'm still not clear which culture she is from (and you may deliberately be not wanting to mention this), but it seems there may also be cultural differences in the way she expects a grandmother to behave. You said earlier you were bringing up your children bilingually - this is presumably so they can feel part of your own family's culture (something you have also not made clear). I think your DH needs to do the same and I'm surprised you don't see this as equally important. Even if he is not fluent in his mother's language he must presumably be able to understand her and communicate with her. He needs to get off his phone and participate. It feels awkward for you, but it must feel even more awkward for her to be ignored by her own son - or maybe she is just used to it which is even sadder. Whether she comes to stay at Christmas or not is a separate issue. You need to work out going forward how your children can have a relationship with their paternal grandmother and that is going to require some adjustment of expectations from everyone. Your DH is at the centre of this and if his answer is just to go LC I'd think very carefully about the message this sends to your own DC.