To sat no to MIL at Christmas

[Hyggerama]

She is visiting us just now, before today we hadn't seen her since the beginning of 2020 when DD was a baby. DD will be 3 soon and we also have baby DS. Dh and MIL are usually LC.

MIL is all over the kids, quite literally. She basically follows DD around as DD plays with her toys. She hovers over DS as he's playing on the floor and tries to get his attention all the time by making clicking noises. I took DS out to play in the swing, MIL wanted to come with, which was fine. I popped out through our gate to say a quick hi to a neighbour who was in his garden, she followed me all the way! After playing in the garden I was walking towards our bins carrying DS to put something small in, she actually followed me to the bins rather than going inside the house.

All of this is made more awkward by the fact that MIL doesn't speak much English (Has lived in the UK for 30+ years) so rather than trying to talk to the children she does this physical following, hovering and making weird clicking noises.

She doesn't know DS's name, she called him 'the little boy'. Small mercies, DS doesn't like it when she tries to hold him and starts crying, DD refused to give her a goodnight hug when she asked. I'm neither encouraging or stopping the children from interacting with her and I let them just do what they feel comfortable with.

So AIBU, DH said he might invite her for Christmas, which would mean a minimum 4 day stay because of the trains. He's not being the best host atm, he's playing on his phone and doing work stuff whilst she's sitting in the living room with us. I would happily accommodate a 2 day stay but 4 days would just be too much for me, and probably the DC too!

I've said that she can visit after Christmas when the trains are running normally. She has a son and lots of close friends in her hometown so she wouldn't be alone.

Just because your grandma was fluent. It doesn’t mean everyone else’s will be. I know a lot of families where the elder females don’t know the language of the country they reside in, it’s really not uncommon.

Doesn’t make it right though. It’s not hard to at least try. This woman clicks at her grandchildren, she doesn’t even say their names! That’s an absolute basic, anyone can say a name FGS. Yes OP could learn a bit of her language too but she needs to be met half way.

How do you know she hasn’t tried?

Some women weren’t sent to school as children and then when they go to communal adult English classes, they don’t always get the help they need. Things like SEN, etc can also be missed.

And it’s common in some cultures to refer to a child as a child rather than their name, it’s often a term of affection.

Children pick up on vibes and since you clearly don’t like her your children have picked up that there is some reason they should not either. I don’t think there is anything wrong about only wanting a guest to stay two days instead of four no matter how much you like or dislike them but your description beforehand does not make you look like a kind person.

Bollocks to that OP!

As an aside my mum does the following thing and it SO ANNOYING!!

I once opened the car door into her arm because she was following me so closely I didn’t realise she was right beside me as I opened the drivers door. I try to be patient and tolerant but usually end up losing it and saying “FFS Mum will you back off” at which she gets very upset and does the whole “OoooOOOOoooo someone’s moody” thing.

Or she just watches me as I do things. Cooking is a good example. She’ll sit at the island staring as I cook. Never offering to help even when I’m clearly trying to do lots of things at once. Never sets the table or pours a jug of water, nothing.

And I can’t say anything without her getting upset and slinking off to call my brother to moan about how mean I am.

It’s so stressful and there’s no way I’d spend a precious Christmas putting up with that, it just makes for a miserable time.

You mean other than not having anything to with them for 3 years (nothing to do with covid), not knowing her Grandsons name, shadowing the OP, even to the bin... pushing herself on the children that don't know her...

@Hyggerama

YANBU your DH has done nothing to help the situation during this visit, they're LC. She has others she spends Christmas with. Tell your DH 'NO' Tell him had he been bothered with his mother during this visit & not left you to do it, you might have felt more inclined.

DD will only be this age, this Christmas, she & you deserve to enjoy it!!!

In 30 years you can’t say the absolute basics? C’mon! I also think OP would know if she was trying or not over a stranger on the internet (and she’s implied she hasn’t)

What do you think about British people who go abroad and never learn the language, do you think that’s acceptable I wonder?

I stand by what I said, it’s rude and lazy. I’m not expecting Dickens here but just the ability to say the basics to her grandchildren! I mean, no wonder they have no bond and don’t go to her, there’s no communication.

Calling you son ‘the little boy’ - is it a cultural thing? I live in an Asian country, and my husband is from another Asian country. Literally all people in the family are referred to by words like this rather than their actual names. For example, all little girls will be called a word meaning ‘little sister’, all older sisters a different word called ‘big sister’. Brothers a word meaning little or big brother. And so on. It’s a traditional thing, both my husbands culture and the culture of the place I’m in now. I think many, many Asian countries have this tradition.

Id let her come, she sounds harmless. A little keen but loving. It would be cruel and hurt her to not let her come. She’s family. Why is Mumsnet so keen to keep family away? It’s so odd. She won’t be around forever, just let her be a part of your family for a special occasion that will mean a lot to her as she clearly loves you?

Also, if she is from another culture then she might not be aware that presents for birthdays etc should be sent in British culture? Where we live you would only bring a gift if you are invited to an event on the persons birthday or Christmas. Special occasions are more about spending time with loved ones and not about the gifts. Similarly, she might be unfamiliar with the concept of giving your family members space! She follows you around because she loves you and wants to be around you and in a lot of cultures (again, like my DHs and that of the second country that I live in now) there is no concept of needing space from family! Family are like an extension of yourself, you’d never ask them for space!

It sounds like there is maybe some cultural confusion and/or she just irritates you and you don’t like her? But I definitely don’t think she’s done anything wrong. You say she hasn’t bothered with the kids but she’s clearly desperate to be around you and spend time with you. It feels a bit off to punish her because her way of showing love is different to yours.

Children pick up on vibes and since you clearly don’t like her your children have picked up that there is some reason they should not either. I don’t think there is anything wrong about only wanting a guest to stay two days instead of four no matter how much you like or dislike them but your description beforehand does not make you look like a kind person.

This. And heaven knows why she chose to marry into family of a different culture when she clearly looks down on them. Typical.

I think you should host MIL, BUT it needs to be dependent on DH keeping her entertained and happy.

He needs to stop being a useless twat playing games on his phone all the time (is he, like, 12?), and talk to MIL in their own language. She needs to be able to relax and so do you.

The "following kids around making clicking noises" does seem a bit irritating, but can you do a mixture of a) make it clear to DH that he needs to talk to her and keep her entertained so she is not following you around the whole time, and b) sometimes just leave her, DH and the children together, and just go off and spend some time doing something by yourself? Perhaps see her somewhat clumsy attempts to play with the kids as something that give you a bit of me-time?

I think people get on each others' nerves at Xmas in households where everyone spends the whole time hanging around the house doing nothing in particular. How about planning some things to do outside the house, even if it's just walks, going to the local park, illuminations, whatever?

I feel kinda sorry for her , give her a chance.

What do you think about British people who go abroad and never learn the language, do you think that’s acceptable I wonder?

I do know what you mean. There is a certain brand of very right-on reverse-xenophobia (oikophobia?) on these boards, where UK people who live abroad without learning to speak good Spanish (or whatever) get scorn poured on them (racist, Brexiteers, gammon, typical useless Brits), but immigrants who live in the UK without learning to speak English are Noble But Oppressed Persons of Color who must have every excuse made for them.

Immigrants to the UK are just people, not saints, Like everyone else in the world, they vary; some immigrants to the UK genuinely are cowardly or lazy about learning the language. Or do that thing of saying that "Of course I want to learn to speak English well" and going to classes, BUT insulating themselves from any need to use the language in their day to day lives (using interpretors all the time, only talking with other members of their diaspora). You don't learn a language unless you deliberately put yourself into situations where you have to actually use itlessons aren't enough! Yes, some people esp women may have been trapped at home in restrictive traditional marriages which can make things hard. Still, my own experience (I am an immigrant in a non English speaking country) is that it is mostly about attitudepeople who actually want to learn their language, invariably find a way.

That said, she's old (presumably) and learning English now would be a bit of an ask--the moment has passed and she's probably too used to interpretor-workarounds to fix this now. Get DH to spend time with her. It's his job, if he's the one who speaks her language. He needs to get off the screens and stop being idle.

Could be a heap of reasons. Maybe she’s really bad at learning new languages. Shrug. Not speaking English is not a moral failure.

OP: your husband really needs to step up. Imo, he’s being a bad host and son and a lazy.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have the resource / confidence / support to learn a language. Don't entertain her if you do not wish to but don't blame the lack of language. Btw communication can be felt in many forms both positive and hostile.
Christmas could be considered a compassionate for time with family, friends and loved ones.

You sound very smug and if you think people would harangue an old Brit immigrant to learn Spanish in Spain then you’re wrong.

So don’t do it here.

Unless you raise your children to be bilingual it will be hard for them to have a meaningful relationship with your mil as they get older. It's hardly ideal now with her clicking constantly and making gestures. No wonder the little ones are freaked out and you irritated. If she is that interested in a relationship with you then you would think that she would at least have learned some simple English . I wouldn't want her there for 4 days at Xmas either . Let her come for a night, two at most after Xmas xx

One day you too will be old and lonely.

You will realise this OP. I just hope it's not too late. Arseholery is a choice.

My children don’t have any family apart from me ,their mum .My mum died a year ago from cancer and she was another mother to the children, they simply adored her .My brother,my childrens uncle was also extremely close to my children sadly passed away too.I am the only person left in their world there is no other family on either side and I know my children would do anything to have their nan (and uncle ) back in their life …I can fully understand her being in your home (and face)would feel irritating ,especially with the communication barriers and the fact you are very unfamiliar with her ,however ,If hubby can do his part to make things easier and give you a break from the intensity ,then I think for a few days over Christmas,I would try it out .It’s about making memories and life is short .Try to embrace family for the sake of your children ,it is their grandmother and she sounds as though she just wants to be with them ,I know it’s hard but don’t take that for granted as the more family that can bond with your children,the better

Im sorry, WTF! Mil has lived in this country for 30 years and doesn't speak the language ??? What concession has MIL made? She has made no attempt to learn English! Given she's been here for 30 years, I take it she's on the census and can vote, yet hasn't attempted to integrate at all.

if you think people would harangue an old Brit immigrant to learn Spanish in Spain then you’re wrong.

No, but people on Mumsnet frequently criticize such people---rightly.

Trust me, some immigrants - regardless of where they are immigrated to - are a bit lazy, and think that lessons are magic and that the language learning will just happen even if they are living in a bubble and not bothering to use the language in their daily lives.

I know a few people like this.

They annoy their fellow immigrants, because they are always getting themselves into situations where they can't sort things out, and then they are on the local FB group begging for help, "Can someone just take a few hours off work? My kid's having issues at school and I need to be able to talk to the teacher..." Or clogging up the group feed with endless photos of paperwork and things that have come through the mail. Nobody minds helping out a newbie, but people like this are really annoying when the requests just keep on coming and you know they've been in the country for years.

Thats a bit of a stretch.

My sons paternal family don’t refer to family members by name. They refer to them as son/daughter, brother/sister, cousin, nephew/niece…. As a term of endearment.

I always used to wonder why my ds’s grandparents called them both Peter when neither are called Peter. It turns out they were calling them Beta which is Hindu for son/child.

It seems OP’s MIL is making an effort to speak English if she’s calling her GS “The Little Boy”.

• Hindi

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why so many of you commenting here are talking in such a very unlikeable, judgemental, and obtuse manner. Is it because you totally believe the OP's version, even though we all know that the human condition makes most of us exaggerate when we want to both make an (often unsavoury) point, and have as many people as possible agree with us?

The culture that the OP's MiL comes from is probably so different to the Western European one, that even if they learned to speak our language when living in this country, but without them being in a community full of people from their own culture, they might struggle to be happy. Most of us have grown up in a country where women are allowed to be strong, allowed to have, and to get to the top of any profession we have chosen for ourselves. Yes, we might think that we are still treated badly by many men in our own culture, but I promise you, that compared to the women from the different cultures I am thinking about, we already have almost total freedom and power.

The OP's poor MiL probably comes from a culture where very few men consider women to have any value whatsoever, except to be used for sex, to have children, cook and clean, and really just be there to look after and obey the males in their families. Many are not allowed to have any form of education, and certainly don't have either the confidence, or the expectation of success, to beg their husbands, fathers, brothers, and adult sons, to let them do anything different, such as learn another language. So, for the millions of women who still live like that, even if they haven't lived in their country of birth for over 30 years, it may well have not even crossed their minds that they could (or may be allowed to) learn another language.

The OP's husband might have been low contact with his mother because he may feel that she is no longer of much use to him, as he now has his own wife to fulfil the roles of both a mother and a wife. So many men from the cultures I am thinking of still feel that females are at the very best, second class citizens, and that their whole role is to serve the males in their society. Of course in the Western World, those men have had to modify their outward behaviours to a certain extent, if they wanted to attract women from cultures other than their own, but I honestly believe that for at least some of them, deep down, they still have very little respect for women. Of course I don't think that all men from those cultures still think and act like that, but I do think that a significant number of them still do, even if they hide it well.

So to judge an older lady, who may well still live in a culture like that - and if she does she almost certainly has little or no
self-confidence - for not learning our language, and for not pushing to see her Grandchildren, who she obviously adores, and also for maybe feeling that she is not wanted or needed by her son's new family, is just nasty in my opinion. The OP seems to be judging her MiL against Western women, and how we behave and react. I am just very glad that I was born into, and that my ancesters (at least the recent ones that I know about) were also born into, our Western European culture. I think that the OP's attitude, and apparent lack of compassion, or empathy, for her MiL, is actually quite horrible (eg she is happy when her children - unintentionally- hurt their poor Grandmothers feelings).

@TheLadyofShalott1
That is such a thought evoking post. I hope that op tries to understand life from her mil’s perspective, which is so very different from her (and my) privileged position of being fluent in other languages.