Page 15 | Husband converted to Islam

newbookonshelf · 2022-11-12T08:46:31+00:00

What would you make of this? Not sure what I'm asking. He's trying to find himself I suppose. We're all looking for meaning in this world. I've thought about religion many times, but just not sure what to make of it right now.

Original poster

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 14:00

pinheadlarry · 13/11/2022 12:54

Its just.. it depends how serious he is about practicing Islam, if he's planning to pick and choose which laws to follow then why is he bothering in the first place??
You will be his wife by law but not recognised as his wife in Islam unless you go to the imam

And I mention this because my ex was Muslim but was not practicing when I met him, so we were young , smoking/ drinking /getting high/ having sex which was all haram
After we had dd he started to feel guilty about how we were living and he wanted to start practicing his faith again
And thats where the cracks really started showing, I didn't want to marry him and I didn't want to be a Muslim
He made me feel like I was making him sin ..
And he was really trying to get my dd to be Muslim and wear a headscarf and I discovered I didn't like that, I was OK with him teaching her about it but i want my dd to make her own decisions about religion and not be conditioned..

And also the little things, I stopped eating pork before I met him but sometimes if I fancied a Gregg's roll, I would have to eat it secretly ....
And if I bought meat he would get upset if I didn't buy halal...

What if your husband really gets serious with the religion ?you might be forced to make a decision ..

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Wow that sounds awful. That's terrible he made you feel that way. he changed the goalposts.

Well, if it came to that obviously there would be a whole issue and he knows that. And as for why bother? Don't ask me. It's not something I would do.

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Artygirlghost · 13/11/2022 14:01

That would be the end of the relationship for me.

I would say that for any religion by the way if the person was going to start doing everything by the book and if their life was going to be dominated by their beliefs and if they expected everyone else in the household to follow their rules.

It just does not match my values in term of women's rights, same-sex relationships and animal welfare.

I would also not want my kids to grow up having to follow and obey this type of patriarchal religions.

In this case I would also question the reasons for doing this.

Yes, it could be purely a spiritual journey and looking for meaning in his life and finding comfort.

Or it could be something more disturbing and him being targeted by people who are taking advantage of someone who might feel a bit lost and vulnerable.

magma32 · 13/11/2022 14:05

@Xenia my point is posters upthread are saying that OP’s husband can’t pick and choose, he needs to go all in or nothing at all. My point about hijab is then women shouldn’t be picking and choosing that they should they. Laws from other countries are irrelevant to the U.K. as mentioned in my post. And even between Muslim countries they all have their own laws as you can see, many don’t even follow inheritance laws so how are people thinking it should be followed in the U.K? Seems to be a perception that there is sharia law in the U.K., but then I suppose if you read certain papers you would believe it.

but yes about converts I absolutely agree, they tend to go down the stricter salafi paths from what I’ve seen which is indeed fire and brimstone. If he’s into the Sufi path and is more spiritual and live and let live then there is hope. But that’s for op to keep an eye on and decide. To save the headache she could just tell him to quit it all and he might be willing, just find it odd her converted without even discussing it or building up to it. Not sure id be happy about it if my Dh decided he was going to convert to a strict path, I’d just say sure but keep me and the kids out of it. But I do wonder if op’s case if prevention is better than cure.

Original poster

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 14:06

magma32 · 13/11/2022 13:38

i am a born muslim as is my Dh we choose not to have much to do with any Muslim “community” the reality over here is the community consists of people who have family ties/cultural or geographic from the villages back home. We are British born so don’t really have much to do with certain cultural mindsets, close knit village mentalities and you’ll find most established communities are like this and people who join the faith or are born into it but their lives don’t revolve around the community, dip in and dip out to mosque when they want, if at all the mosque has zero authority over people. Of course you will get people trying to take converts under their wing but if the convert knows their mind and has confidence they can just say no thanks.

If a person wants to have a religious ceremony you can go to any imam anywhere, doesn’t have to be your local mosque etc. My Dh hasn’t been to mosque for a while but when he has gone he does his prayers and that’s it, greets the congregation and he’s off. As op’s Dh is looking at Islam as a personal thing and not to be part of a community I don’t see why he needs to answer to any randoms at the mosque about his family life. There is no central authority for Muslims especially not here in the U.K.

It seems non Muslims/atheists have a problem with moderate Muslims, mumsnet sharia court is basically saying you can’t pick and choose, you must do this or that but reality of many Muslims here and around the world for centuries over is they absolutely pick and choose. That’s goes for followers of all religions. Most moderate Muslims believe god is most merciful, over the fire and brimstone stuff, and do their best in their circumstances as op’s husband will do without disrupting his family life. I mean there are plenty of Muslim men married to non converted women, and I’m seeing more and more muslim women marrying non Muslim men. If they’re happy then it’s nobody’s business.

I mean I know so many Muslim women here and in moderate Muslim countries who don’t wear hijab, mumsnet will say how very dare they pick and choose. better wear a full burka. Most people aren’t forced to be muslim in the U.K. so they do what they feel comfortable with, people find benefit in religion for all sorts of reasons so following it to the letter is not what many want to do. Like I said I’m born muslim, I don’t have much dealings with the community or family so if I was to leave Islam nobody would care. Not even my muslim neighbours etc. i have had times where I’ve questioned faith and my Dh has been nothing but supportive and accepts me as I am. I have had friends leave islam in the U.K. and the most they get is people (who don’t even know them personally) stare as they’ve changed their dress apart from that nobody has tried to stone them ffs. So I’m not understanding all this that op’s Dh must do this or that. No he doesn’t! And as for kids any birth rites aren’t compulsory anyway, religious practice for kids starts after puberty, OP will notice before then if her Dh is wanting to inflict religion onto them and can make decisions accordingly. Honestly, my kids don’t seem any different on the surface to non Muslim kids, and I know a lot of Muslim parents don’t send their kids to madrassa as they don’t like the environment, these are born Muslim parents. how would anyone know the family set up without interrogating them. Makes no sense. oP my original post to you still stands, anything can change with him but stand your ground and don’t be coerced into anything. Like I said there is no compulsion in religion, certainly not in a non sharia country. There is so much misinformation about laws that only apply in sharia practicing countries but people think it applies here in the U.K. how can you have any laws when they can’t be legally enforced whether it’s marriage or otherwise. Good luck with him trying to marry another woman when he’s already married. What’s the worst that will happen, you treat it like an affair and dump him, I’m muslim and wouldn’t hesitate if my Dh wanted to take another wife. Like I said nobody should be forced to do to accept anything if the law is on their side.

Thank you, this is really helpful.

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OneTC · 13/11/2022 14:15

Xenia · 13/11/2022 13:55

Mumsnet does not say all muslim women have to cover up. Lots of muslim women in the Uk don't - in fact it can be the older women who don't and their "radical" daughters as an act of rebellion who do in some areas of the UK. A complicated picture. We are also very familiar with C of E (almost any goes) v more fundamentalist Christian groups.

The worry though is that in most religions converts are the most strict as any religion will tell you and this man is a convert.

on the death issue - yes as far as I am aware it is only muslim nations that have the death penalty if you later give up the faith. I don't think any Christian countries have the death penalty for apostacy.
"Apostasy is punishable with death in nearly a dozen countries, according to a new report from Humanists International.

The Freedom of Thought Report 2021 found that "apostasy" is punishable with death in at least ten countries; Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.

Pakistan does not have a death sentence for "apostasy", but it does for "blasphemy", and the threshold for blasphemy is low. So in effect, there is a death penalty for expressing atheism or converting religion in at least 11 countries, of which all are Muslim-majority"

This thread has had lots of non Muslims tell us what "proper" Muslims are

Artygirlghost · 13/11/2022 14:18

I should have added that I have worked with many amazing, incredibly strong female muslim colleagues in London who were actually the ''boss'' in their relationship and who raised their kids with fairly liberal views and seem to manage the right balance between religion and modern life very well.

But what if you end up with someone who takes the religion too far and wants to follow everything to the book and start trying to reform your and your kids' freedom? That would be my worry.

Original poster

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 14:23

Artygirlghost · 13/11/2022 14:18

I should have added that I have worked with many amazing, incredibly strong female muslim colleagues in London who were actually the ''boss'' in their relationship and who raised their kids with fairly liberal views and seem to manage the right balance between religion and modern life very well.

But what if you end up with someone who takes the religion too far and wants to follow everything to the book and start trying to reform your and your kids' freedom? That would be my worry.

I've basically been assured it's not about that. I do trust him. It was just sudden, as people said.

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ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 13/11/2022 14:36

OP does your DH speak Arabic. If not, where is he getting his information on the interpretation of the Qur'an and Hadith? The people who are guiding him are a key part of his journey. In the same way if a partner joined the local Anglican church, I'd probably not expect much change but if they joined an evangelical Christian group or Opus Dei then it would potentially more of an issue.

Original poster

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 14:40

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 13/11/2022 14:36

OP does your DH speak Arabic. If not, where is he getting his information on the interpretation of the Qur'an and Hadith? The people who are guiding him are a key part of his journey. In the same way if a partner joined the local Anglican church, I'd probably not expect much change but if they joined an evangelical Christian group or Opus Dei then it would potentially more of an issue.

Scholars on youtube, various ones. I can name some, I had a friend in Pakistan message me one, who apparently is good for new Muslims. Dr Zakir

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magma32 · 13/11/2022 14:45

OP tell him to look up Timothy Winter and Hamza Yusuf, they are convert scholars with moderate, common sense views who he might find relatable.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 13/11/2022 14:53

Some of them are great and some of them not so good. It's worth you watching some of these videos yourself just to see what they are saying. DH has shown me some of the years and there have been a few where I've said that I find them offensive as a Christian. My pet hate is the one's who play my book is better than yours top trumps with other religions. (I would find it equally offensive if a Christian was doing the same and trying to pick holes in other Holy Books).

I would be concerned that he made this decision based on very limited knowledge. He is relying on others to tell him what the rules say in the original Arabic and how they are applied. A translation sometimes loses the nuance. DH is a mother tongue Arabic speaker and if he shows me a translation of something sometimes his reading is slightly different.

I would expect him to be studying properly to make sure he understands for himself what is required.

DH and I have been married for over 20 years so a cultural Christian and Muslim can make it work. However, it's taken common sense and compromise on both our parts. For example, I'm a pescatarian and I don't drink so there have never been dietary issues. I am a fan of intermittent fasting so I fast from food during Ramadan but I drink normally for health reasons.

Noviembre · 13/11/2022 14:56

I would just leave him. I have no patience for religious people and would also think he was just doing it for attention.

Original poster

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 15:01

magma32 · 13/11/2022 14:45

OP tell him to look up Timothy Winter and Hamza Yusuf, they are convert scholars with moderate, common sense views who he might find relatable.

Thank you very much, I will look at them myself.

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Original poster

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 15:03

Noviembre · 13/11/2022 14:56

I would just leave him. I have no patience for religious people and would also think he was just doing it for attention.

It's definitely not for attention.
I am finding it weird being with a religious person but it's literally day 2.

I'm not going to "just leave" my husband and dad of our child no, unless he was abusive to be honest, which he isn't.

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Xenia · 13/11/2022 15:38

Non muslims are not telling anyone what a proper muslim is. My posts make it clear some muslims cover their head and some not. The fact Islamic countries are the only ones that will kill you if you change from Islam to another religion is a fact. Of course the UK does not have the death penalty for that so the husband here should be on safe ground as long as they avoid moving to those countries I mention.

magma32 · 13/11/2022 16:13

Xenia · 13/11/2022 15:38

Non muslims are not telling anyone what a proper muslim is. My posts make it clear some muslims cover their head and some not. The fact Islamic countries are the only ones that will kill you if you change from Islam to another religion is a fact. Of course the UK does not have the death penalty for that so the husband here should be on safe ground as long as they avoid moving to those countries I mention.

I wasn’t referring to your posts, I was referring to the mumsnet fatwas upthread telling OP what her husband has to behave like as a Muslim (man) in the U.K.
my post was in the context of U.K. law and not ‘sharia’ whatever sharia is as it’s always been changing over the centuries by various Islamic rulers based on their own ideas and political contexts, many rulings which were not part of the original Islamic landscape.
So yes it’s irrelevant to OP’s family unless they wanted to move over to one of those countries.

Endofmyteatherr · 13/11/2022 16:30

Someone mentioned several pages back. That the issue is not about Muslim, Jewish or whatever religion its the fact that OPS husband has decided to convert in the first place. I think some are missing the point completely.

Original poster

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 16:42

Endofmyteatherr · 13/11/2022 16:30

Someone mentioned several pages back. That the issue is not about Muslim, Jewish or whatever religion its the fact that OPS husband has decided to convert in the first place. I think some are missing the point completely.

Kind of. I mean I was just looking for input and it has all informed the questions I asked my husband.

We're fine. I just really didn't know what to make of it as it was sudden. Also, I never signed up to be in a relationship with a religious person so I did take a slight issue.

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monsteramunch · 13/11/2022 17:49

@newbookonshelf

Has he not been discussing this with you for months if he's now taken the shahada? As in officially, with his two witnesses?

It's a big decision and while it's his and his alone, it seems strange for him to have done this and just told you afterwards?

Original poster

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 17:59

monsteramunch · 13/11/2022 17:49

@newbookonshelf

Has he not been discussing this with you for months if he's now taken the shahada? As in officially, with his two witnesses?

It's a big decision and while it's his and his alone, it seems strange for him to have done this and just told you afterwards?

Yes he has been interested in it for a while then hinted he would perhaps convert about a week beforehand then went to visit a mosque, which he told me he would do the week before, then called me after he had been as he had done it and witnessed by a sheikh and another guy, not sure if the Imam or not. He sent me a picture.

I did say that the fact he did not tell me he was going to do it I didn't like but he said he just wanted to do it and didn't want me to dissuade him, which I may have done to be fair, or at least ask questions which I think he finds a bit offensive in that he feels defensive.

I am not the most tactful of people I must admit. Not that I don't try, I just can come across harshly without meaning to.

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Blueberry111 · 13/11/2022 18:33

JuvenileEmu · 12/11/2022 14:59

I do not believe that there was no morality or care for others before religion, no. And I do not believe that if religion disappeared people would stop treating each other well. And if you're going to credit religion with codifying morality, then I think you should also accept the history of religion causing wars and persecution of "non-believers", not to mention the persecution of one sect of a religion by another sect of the same religion. And accept that part of the codifying of morality in religious texts includes a hell of a lot of misogyny and homophobia.

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Do you have any historical evidence of why you think so? Im afraid I disagree that good was already established and religions followed it and also claimed it.

Some examples : the Qur'an was revealed in AD 610 to 632 during Prophet Muhammad's life. He spoke of liberation of women in a society and rights for them, such as rights to divorce, inheritance, education, and many other things. He was a MAN fighting for the rights of women in a society that treated women worse than slaves.

In 1923 : about 1300years after the Qur'an was established, the English law allowed divorce of grounds of misconduct alone, whereas Islam allowed this right 1300years ago. There are a lot of other laws that came from Islamic law if you look into the history of things.

Below is the book for reference. It's a short read and very interesting.

www.alislam.org/book/muhammad-liberator-women/

Wrt to homosexuality, yes as Muslims we don't agree with it, but there are 2 fundamental principles in Islam - 'hakukullah( duty to God) and hakukulibad (duty to fellow beings). Meaning you must treat everyone with kindness and respect, thus I may not agree with their way of life but I will still respect and be kind to them as they're God's creation. Same with the Jewish community - as a lot seem to be commenting about them also here.
Unfortunately what you see as some Muslims abusing gays and Jews, are themselves far far from the actual teachings of Islam, therefore if you want to judge look into its teachings rather than examples of so called religious people.

Blueberry111 · 13/11/2022 18:38

newbookonshelf · 12/11/2022 17:40

Me too!

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OP if you fear he will impose his teachings on you, my advise would be ...learn about the teachings yourself. So that if he does pull up on anything you can correct him. He's the convert not you, so he can't ask you to do things like wear the hijab...or even cover up - in the Qur'an it says : theres no compulsion in religion, so one is free to chose whatever they believe and cannot be forced to do so.

If I was you OP and loved my husband and I think you mentioned you had a child? I would still try to read up on Islam just to understand where my husband is coming from, or how he now sees things, it doesn't mean you have to believe in it yourself but it may allow you to understand and things might work better?

Best of luck OP.

chakra1 · 13/11/2022 18:50

OP, are you aware of this hideous man who was all over social media - Andrew Tate. He's absolutely vile, but he appeals to losers / incels / men who feel inadequate in life or shift are searching for 'something.' He hooks them in with so-called mental health advice / positive attitude coaching, but it's all laced with a heavy dose of the most vile misogyny you can imagine. Anyway, he was a self-professed Christian, but now has apparently converted to Islam in the last month. Many of his followers are converting with him. The reason is that AT preaches that men need to regain their natural role as the head of the household; they own their wives and all women want (by nature) is to serve men and do it's fine to have 4 wives as long as you financially maintain them all. This is why he has converted. I would be looking at your husbands social media if I were you as the timing of his 'conversion' may not be a coincidence. There is a lot of this going on and au would be very worried its actually about AT, especially as your DH seems to have not thought it through at all.

chakra1 · 13/11/2022 18:51

*who are searching for something. (not 'shift' - sorry)

Original poster

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 18:53

Blueberry111 · 13/11/2022 18:38

OP if you fear he will impose his teachings on you, my advise would be ...learn about the teachings yourself. So that if he does pull up on anything you can correct him. He's the convert not you, so he can't ask you to do things like wear the hijab...or even cover up - in the Qur'an it says : theres no compulsion in religion, so one is free to chose whatever they believe and cannot be forced to do so.

If I was you OP and loved my husband and I think you mentioned you had a child? I would still try to read up on Islam just to understand where my husband is coming from, or how he now sees things, it doesn't mean you have to believe in it yourself but it may allow you to understand and things might work better?

Best of luck OP.

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Yeah I mean I've vaguely interested in all religions and actually been exposed to a fair bit of info on Islam for previous jobs and through people I know.

I may watch some stuff on youtube but probably not much.

I think my main thing will be a kind of keep it to yourself vibe. I don't want to be mean but I'm just basically not that interested.

We really aren't anywhere near me wearing a hijab etc. etc. and he found any suggestion he may ever do that laughable. It's about him. I just wanted to understand and wasn't that happy he didn't consult me first, although I wonder if I'm being unreasonable since it's personal to him.

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