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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Husband converted to Islam

592 replies

newbookonshelf · 12/11/2022 08:46

What would you make of this? Not sure what I'm asking. He's trying to find himself I suppose. We're all looking for meaning in this world. I've thought about religion many times, but just not sure what to make of it right now.

OP posts:
mamabear715 · 13/11/2022 08:43

@newbookonshelf I'm glad you've got your head screwed on ok despite 13 pages of LTB, lol! :-)
He's the same guy, isn't he? Just exploring. Good luck to you both.

gogohmm · 13/11/2022 08:46

Sorry op but be very wary. Converts tend to be the more zealous.

May start moderate but in Islam it's very male dominated so be prepared to stand your ground. Not eating pork or drinking alcohol isn't the issue, it's the attitude to women, that women have a separate door at the mosque, can't sit with their husbands etc that I simply cannot respect - women and equals so why confine them to a separate space? And why cover yourself? Men can keep their hands to themselves. If I'm made in gods image, why should my flesh be covered? Ok I'm liberal Christian but I've got Muslim friends and most do not follow the rules especially when out of town (where no one they know can see them)

Softplayhooray · 13/11/2022 08:57

Illstartexercisingtomorrow · 12/11/2022 13:41

One thing that really stands out on this thread is the widespread prejudice against the perception of a Muslim woman.

So many ignorant comments about how badly Muslim women are treated.

Do any of you stop for a moment to realise you are part of the problem by perceiving all Muslim women as one?

Is it really such a difficult concept to understand that in every community and culture some people will treat women badly and others won’t?

After all the threads on the relationship boards talking about how badly British men are treating their British wives - no one goes around saying ‘oh I’d hate to be white British, their men just cocklodge and cheat’ - somehow here people manage to understand that these are individual situations.

Yet you refuse to apply the same logic to Muslim men and women?

I will tell you what one of the hardest things about being a Muslim woman is: the repeated encounters with the (usually white British) woman with a superiority complex, who assumes and behaves as though we are somehow oppressed, and refuses to understand that she should see each of us as an individual, despite demanding that right for herself.

Do some authentic research. Islam was the first to give women rights and honour them, centuries before the west, and continues to do so. If you don’t agree with the way of life then that’s your choice, but don’t patronise those of us who do choose it, our choices are just as valid as yours.

I like this post. Tbh I'm agnostic and always will be but I have so many Muslim female friends who are nothing like the stereotypes we always hear, their husbands are respectful, great guys and I can honestly see so much value and quality of life that following the Muslim way of life brings to their families. I've known these people for decades and it genuinely upsets me to see so many mistruths, lies, misunderstanding and hatred for what is a genuinely positive way of living. I'd say the same about any religion or social group if I saw this same mismatch between what I can see to be true and what people negatively believe to be true.

There are always maniacs of every religion twisting it to suit their nasty extremist, misogynistic (etc) views but that's a bastardisation of a religion to suit their own nasty outcomes. The real Islam is respectful of women. I know that through my friends.

As I said I'm agnostic and will never ever follow any religion for a whole host of reasons but anti Muslim hatred has very real nasty consequences and I don't want to see that directed at my friends because people don't understand the reality.

OneTC · 13/11/2022 09:09

scaredoff · 12/11/2022 22:46

The OP chose to post on here looking for advice.

And some people read the OP and gave relevant advice, and some people read the OP and went on a weird tangent

Sceptre86 · 13/11/2022 09:35

It's a tough one. As a Muslim seeing someone take the shahadah is a special thing but it shouldn't be done in a hurry. It's something that a person should research, take the time to find out about and having a few Muslim friends doesn't cut it. To hear that someone can do so with so little thought is actually insulting ( not saying your dh did this) it's more than just a belief system being a Muslim affects my whole life and is all encompassing. You have to give it your all and be prepared to live a different life. It isn't something that you can just quit either, tried it, didn't like it, no thanks.

It sounds more like your dh us looking for something, a higher connection or a sense of community/belonging. Would he consider counselling to get to the root cause if what he is looking for? You sound like a lovely supportive wife and partner and that will always stand him in good steed. Remember it's him that is looking for a belief system and not you so you aren't required to make any allowances other that what you would wish to.

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 09:40

Sceptre86 · 13/11/2022 09:35

It's a tough one. As a Muslim seeing someone take the shahadah is a special thing but it shouldn't be done in a hurry. It's something that a person should research, take the time to find out about and having a few Muslim friends doesn't cut it. To hear that someone can do so with so little thought is actually insulting ( not saying your dh did this) it's more than just a belief system being a Muslim affects my whole life and is all encompassing. You have to give it your all and be prepared to live a different life. It isn't something that you can just quit either, tried it, didn't like it, no thanks.

It sounds more like your dh us looking for something, a higher connection or a sense of community/belonging. Would he consider counselling to get to the root cause if what he is looking for? You sound like a lovely supportive wife and partner and that will always stand him in good steed. Remember it's him that is looking for a belief system and not you so you aren't required to make any allowances other that what you would wish to.

Thank you, this is very insightful.

OP posts:
MrsThimbles · 13/11/2022 10:00

He's agreed our children wouldn't be raised in Islam. How will any mosque community deal with this?

In the eyes of the Mosque community your children will be Muslim because they’re father is. It will be looked upon as him not bringing them up as practicing Muslims and he’ll be encouraged to change that.

But just one question - what is your husband going to do if you have children and he is supposed to whisper the Muslim call to prayer into the child’s ear as soon as possible (immediately) after the birth?

MrsThimbles · 13/11/2022 10:04

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 09:40

Thank you, this is very insightful.

I completely agree with Sceptre86.

And I just don’t understand how someone can say oh, the children won’t be brought up in Islam when as a Muslim there are birth rites to be carried out for your child that you as a father have to perform.

KimberleyClark · 13/11/2022 10:06

lawofselfish · 12/11/2022 13:08

Are you ginger? You seem offended.

I am ginger and I noticed the phenomenon a few years ago which lead to me googling, where I saw other people had also noticed.

It's definitely a thing, deny it or not.

I do remember walking past a woman in a niqab once and noticing her eyes were blue and her eyebrows ginger.

BobbyBobbyBobby · 13/11/2022 10:08

I will divorce me soon as possible and I hope you don’t have children with him.

BobbyBobbyBobby · 13/11/2022 10:09

Voice recording error ^^

I would divorce him as soon as possible and I hope you don’t have children with him.

steakart · 13/11/2022 10:12

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in absence what Allah would have them guard. But those from whom you fear arrogance - advise them; forsake them in bed; and, strike them. But if they obey you, seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever exalted and Grand. (Quran4:34)

If this sounds like respect for women I am the pope.

steakart · 13/11/2022 10:13

Witness of a women is half of a man, no Muslim can deny that but still the following part of the verse of Quran given.
And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. (Quran 2:228)
Also a hadith from Sahih Bukhari: Book of Witnesses: Chapter witness of women: Hadith no. 2658
The prophet said,"Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes". He said, “This is deficiency of her mind".
Another gem

Croque · 13/11/2022 10:42

I think that a lot of these posts are so despairingly pessimistic and prejudiced. The DH has only become interested in the religion for a month. One month. It is hardly worth overthinking at this stage.
True love can conquer all and if they both really want to save their relationship then they will arrive at a compromise, he will not turn into a zealot or abandon his interest under duress. Decisions about children will require additional conversations. It really depends on how good you both are at communicating and compromising.

Threadkillacilla · 13/11/2022 11:41

@Croque he's already done Shahada and converted/reverted. It's not easy to leave Islam the punishment is severe.

Moonatics · 13/11/2022 11:42

Croque · 13/11/2022 10:42

I think that a lot of these posts are so despairingly pessimistic and prejudiced. The DH has only become interested in the religion for a month. One month. It is hardly worth overthinking at this stage.
True love can conquer all and if they both really want to save their relationship then they will arrive at a compromise, he will not turn into a zealot or abandon his interest under duress. Decisions about children will require additional conversations. It really depends on how good you both are at communicating and compromising.

Have you been watching too many hallmark movies? True love conquers nothing.

As for the interest in the religion, the thread title says "husband converted to islam"
Not that hes interested, searching, curious, actually converted. That's pretty final.

And from pp the pessimism is warranted if like me they have known converts. Most of whom become slightly manic about their new religion. Any religion, the religion doesn't seem to matter, just how evangelical they can be about it.

OneTC · 13/11/2022 12:08

Threadkillacilla · 13/11/2022 11:41

@Croque he's already done Shahada and converted/reverted. It's not easy to leave Islam the punishment is severe.

I think that's more of an issue if you are part of the community and your family and friends are all Muslim. Then the implications of leaving the faith can be massive. As a recent convert with little attachment, not so much.

DrAliceHamilton · 13/11/2022 12:15

OneTC · 13/11/2022 12:08

I think that's more of an issue if you are part of the community and your family and friends are all Muslim. Then the implications of leaving the faith can be massive. As a recent convert with little attachment, not so much.

Yes. In theory his potential children would be born Muslim and hence also be treated as apostates if they didn't grow up to practice Islam. In practice that wouldn't be a problem for the British born children of a British-born Muslim convert.

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 12:37

Threadkillacilla · 13/11/2022 11:41

@Croque he's already done Shahada and converted/reverted. It's not easy to leave Islam the punishment is severe.

I'm not sure what you mean about "leaving Islam". If he's said he believes something and never returns to a mosque, what would happen? He is free to never go back to that place, and it doesn't even look like he will be.

I spoke to him about the fact that not only am I not a Muslim but I don't see any inherent need to respect Islam, nor any religion at all really, and he's have to profess that to anyone in a mosque when questioned, or lie.

I think it might just well be something that never takes on any life of its own but instead he just keeps reading and learning and saying 'PBUH' at home (which I suppose I can ignore) although I find it a little silly in all honesty.

OP posts:
newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 12:39

Threadkillacilla · 13/11/2022 11:41

@Croque he's already done Shahada and converted/reverted. It's not easy to leave Islam the punishment is severe.

Re the friend I had, she took shahada and I went with her to groups (where they asked me to be Muslim and I politely declined) and had a Muslim boyfriend, albeit not from that community, but in the end she didn't stay Muslim and absolutely nothing happened to her.

So I think this assertion that you can't leave is a bit off?

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 13/11/2022 12:48

The prescribed punishment for apostasy is death. In reality for someone living in the UK that is not part of a close knit culturally Muslim group (i.e. from a culture or ethnicity that is usually Muslim). Then I doubt there would be any repercussions at all if he walked away. I think the difficulty for apostates in the UK probably comes from social and cultural pressures if you are part of a community and culture that is majority Muslim.
e.g. DH's family live in a small town in North Africa I doubt anyone there would publicly walk away from Islam, but they may practise it with varying degrees of effort.

pinheadlarry · 13/11/2022 12:54

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 08:24

I'm as ignorant as you to be honest.

The praying doesn't bother me. We both WFH and if he's praying up there I wouldn't even know let alone care.

As for raising our child and a future child Muslim he's agreed that that won't happen and that he will in fact be sinning by not doing that, also by staying married to me, obviously we got married before he converted.

But if his God doesn't recognise our marriage well, does it matter since the law of our country does and really the only thing I follow is the law of my country to which I am native and which I respect and love.

To be honest our marriage was secular and even though I might have my own beliefs in some higher being it's neither here nor there as our marriage was a personal and legal contract.

He seems to be going into it as a moderate Muslim. So he's like 'yeah I'll sin but I'll just explain that to Allah on the day of judgement and hope he's okay with it'

I mean this is exactly why I'm not one religion, because I'd want to be it to its fullest and I know I can't be/am not willing to be.

Its just.. it depends how serious he is about practicing Islam, if he's planning to pick and choose which laws to follow then why is he bothering in the first place??
You will be his wife by law but not recognised as his wife in Islam unless you go to the imam

And I mention this because my ex was Muslim but was not practicing when I met him, so we were young , smoking/ drinking /getting high/ having sex which was all haram
After we had dd he started to feel guilty about how we were living and he wanted to start practicing his faith again
And thats where the cracks really started showing, I didn't want to marry him and I didn't want to be a Muslim
He made me feel like I was making him sin ..
And he was really trying to get my dd to be Muslim and wear a headscarf and I discovered I didn't like that, I was OK with him teaching her about it but i want my dd to make her own decisions about religion and not be conditioned..

And also the little things, I stopped eating pork before I met him but sometimes if I fancied a Gregg's roll, I would have to eat it secretly ....
And if I bought meat he would get upset if I didn't buy halal...

What if your husband really gets serious with the religion ?you might be forced to make a decision ..

Croque · 13/11/2022 12:55

newbookonshelf · 13/11/2022 12:37

I'm not sure what you mean about "leaving Islam". If he's said he believes something and never returns to a mosque, what would happen? He is free to never go back to that place, and it doesn't even look like he will be.

I spoke to him about the fact that not only am I not a Muslim but I don't see any inherent need to respect Islam, nor any religion at all really, and he's have to profess that to anyone in a mosque when questioned, or lie.

I think it might just well be something that never takes on any life of its own but instead he just keeps reading and learning and saying 'PBUH' at home (which I suppose I can ignore) although I find it a little silly in all honesty.

Exactly. You cannot jump the gun. The Court Of Mumsnet advises pretty much every poster to quit their relationship as far as I can see even though it is clearly justified in many cases. Your case is obviously a unique one. You are confronting your fears upfront and anticipating likely scenarios. That is a mature approach. There usually is middle ground but perhaps encourage him to explore his beliefs privately for a year before trying to join a group/mosque because issues can magnify where there is input from a group of people who all agree with one another.

magma32 · 13/11/2022 13:38

i am a born muslim as is my Dh we choose not to have much to do with any Muslim “community” the reality over here is the community consists of people who have family ties/cultural or geographic from the villages back home. We are British born so don’t really have much to do with certain cultural mindsets, close knit village mentalities and you’ll find most established communities are like this and people who join the faith or are born into it but their lives don’t revolve around the community, dip in and dip out to mosque when they want, if at all the mosque has zero authority over people. Of course you will get people trying to take converts under their wing but if the convert knows their mind and has confidence they can just say no thanks.

If a person wants to have a religious ceremony you can go to any imam anywhere, doesn’t have to be your local mosque etc. My Dh hasn’t been to mosque for a while but when he has gone he does his prayers and that’s it, greets the congregation and he’s off. As op’s Dh is looking at Islam as a personal thing and not to be part of a community I don’t see why he needs to answer to any randoms at the mosque about his family life. There is no central authority for Muslims especially not here in the U.K.

It seems non Muslims/atheists have a problem with moderate Muslims, mumsnet sharia court is basically saying you can’t pick and choose, you must do this or that but reality of many Muslims here and around the world for centuries over is they absolutely pick and choose. That’s goes for followers of all religions. Most moderate Muslims believe god is most merciful, over the fire and brimstone stuff, and do their best in their circumstances as op’s husband will do without disrupting his family life. I mean there are plenty of Muslim men married to non converted women, and I’m seeing more and more muslim women marrying non Muslim men. If they’re happy then it’s nobody’s business.

I mean I know so many Muslim women here and in moderate Muslim countries who don’t wear hijab, mumsnet will say how very dare they pick and choose. better wear a full burka. Most people aren’t forced to be muslim in the U.K. so they do what they feel comfortable with, people find benefit in religion for all sorts of reasons so following it to the letter is not what many want to do. Like I said I’m born muslim, I don’t have much dealings with the community or family so if I was to leave Islam nobody would care. Not even my muslim neighbours etc. i have had times where I’ve questioned faith and my Dh has been nothing but supportive and accepts me as I am. I have had friends leave islam in the U.K. and the most they get is people (who don’t even know them personally) stare as they’ve changed their dress apart from that nobody has tried to stone them ffs. So I’m not understanding all this that op’s Dh must do this or that. No he doesn’t! And as for kids any birth rites aren’t compulsory anyway, religious practice for kids starts after puberty, OP will notice before then if her Dh is wanting to inflict religion onto them and can make decisions accordingly. Honestly, my kids don’t seem any different on the surface to non Muslim kids, and I know a lot of Muslim parents don’t send their kids to madrassa as they don’t like the environment, these are born Muslim parents. how would anyone know the family set up without interrogating them. Makes no sense. oP my original post to you still stands, anything can change with him but stand your ground and don’t be coerced into anything. Like I said there is no compulsion in religion, certainly not in a non sharia country. There is so much misinformation about laws that only apply in sharia practicing countries but people think it applies here in the U.K. how can you have any laws when they can’t be legally enforced whether it’s marriage or otherwise. Good luck with him trying to marry another woman when he’s already married. What’s the worst that will happen, you treat it like an affair and dump him, I’m muslim and wouldn’t hesitate if my Dh wanted to take another wife. Like I said nobody should be forced to do to accept anything if the law is on their side.

Xenia · 13/11/2022 13:55

Mumsnet does not say all muslim women have to cover up. Lots of muslim women in the Uk don't - in fact it can be the older women who don't and their "radical" daughters as an act of rebellion who do in some areas of the UK. A complicated picture. We are also very familiar with C of E (almost any goes) v more fundamentalist Christian groups.

The worry though is that in most religions converts are the most strict as any religion will tell you and this man is a convert.

on the death issue - yes as far as I am aware it is only muslim nations that have the death penalty if you later give up the faith. I don't think any Christian countries have the death penalty for apostacy.
"Apostasy is punishable with death in nearly a dozen countries, according to a new report from Humanists International.

The Freedom of Thought Report 2021 found that "apostasy" is punishable with death in at least ten countries; Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.

Pakistan does not have a death sentence for "apostasy", but it does for "blasphemy", and the threshold for blasphemy is low. So in effect, there is a death penalty for expressing atheism or converting religion in at least 11 countries, of which all are Muslim-majority"