AIBU for overreacting to comment by John Lewis

[filletofishmeal]

I was on the phone to John Lewis as they failed to deliver an item ( did not put it on their load), and as the person was processing a new delivery date he was making small talk about the reason why I was purchasing a TV. I said it was for the cricket world up, and he asked who I thought I was going to win the tournament. I replied that I am British, so am backing England. He then told me that my name does not sound British, where are my parents from?
I snapped at that point and got a bit shirty with him, as I felt it was unreasonable for him to assume I am not British just because of my surname.

I just don't think nationality is something you identify as- you are either it or you are not.

If you were born to non-British parents outside of Britiani and brought up elsewhere then you are not British. If you were born and raised in Britain then you are British- even if your origins are not.

I know plenty of people of Paksistani origin, they describe themselves as Yorkshire foremost, and British, and rightly so. Although they never deny their Pakistani origins and are proud of their culture.

I also know a few Polish immigrants and they do not identify as British because they came here as immigrants about 15 years go. They will always be Polish no matter how many decades they live here

If you were born in England and have lived here all your life then I absolutely accept you as English. When did I say I didn't?

I just don't think nationality is something you identify as- you are either it or you are not.

But you still get a lot of Scots who do NOT identify as British. I don't know if there are many Welsh people who identify so strongly as non-British - only know a few Welsh people and they seemed fairly ambivalent.

So I do think there is an element of 'buy in'. And of course, there's no such thing as an 'English/Welsh/Scottish' passport, so there's probably a stronger case for someone aligning with being 'British' (as per their passport), as opposed to any of the four nations.

Well, Scots are British whether they like it or not!

I wasn’t born here.

OK, well, until you stop being so ambiguous about things it's not something I can give answers to.

Why would it matter where I was born? I lived there for months rather than years and have no ongoing connection to the country.

I’ve told you that for the majority of my life, I have lived in England.

@purfectpuss

I do find it interesting how easily you accept my Britishness but how reluctant you are to accept my Englishness. If I’m not English, which of the four nations am I from?

@karmakameleon I have not accepted or denied your Englisheness- that was just you.

I know it’s not the same but I was born in Scotland to Scottish parents. I moved to England when I was a couple of weeks old and have lived here ever since. I say I am Scottish (or British)

I think this too. Hopefully just clumsy.

You have consistently and repeatedly said that just because I have lived in England a country for a significant period of time (the vast majority of my life) I can’t claim to be English from that country. You said you cannot self identify as a nationality. So until the breakdown of the Union there will be no way that I can get my English passport and claim to be English, in your opinion. Wonder what makes you able to self identify as English. You even rather crassly said that I shouldn’t be ashamed to be associated with my origins as if that is my nationality.

I have never specified a difference between English and British. And as for claiming to be English and passports- well that goes for all of us- I am British.

There clearly is a difference between English and British. Who gets to claim to be English? There are lots of people who say they are English. What do they have in common? Which of these people who claim to be English are, and which are just incorrectly self identifying as such? If there is an objective way of determining Englishness, surely you must be able to tell us the rules?

I honestly don't know what you are getting at. You can't be British without either being English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish.I consider myself English and British. My ancestors, as far as I can trace them back, were all residents in England. I was born in England, have lived in England all my life, as have both my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents. I have no known recent relatives of any other nationality. My MIL is Scottish and British. She hasn't lived in Scotland for over 60 years, but she still considers herself Scottish, not English. I have friends who are British Pakistanis, they identify as English and more specifically Yorkshire (like myself), although I'm not sure being English trumps their Pakistani heritage- they certainly still identify strongly as Pakistani as we'll as British.

@purfectpuss that’s all great, but I don’t think you can blame karma for being confused, as her post said she had lived in England of decades, that her parents had lived in England for decades, and instead of acknowledging her as British or English, you said:

But why do you want to 'be English'? Are you not proud of your origins? I simply cannot envisage ever calling myself something other than that which I was born and brought up as.

Anyway, it sounds like you’re basically in agreement.

The bizarre comment is saying Im British so I'm backing England

I consider myself English and British.

So you self identify as English? I thought you said that you don’t believe in self identification for nationality? Or is there some sort of certificate you have? I believe I’m English because I have lived here for the vast majority of my life (more than any other country). I speak the language fluently with a native accent, follow the customs etc but you refused to acknowledge my Englishness. You said: “But why do you want to 'be English'? Are you not proud of your origins?”

I have friends who are British Pakistanis, they identify as English and more specifically Yorkshire (like myself), although I'm not sure being English trumps their Pakistani heritage

Why not? Why are they more Pakistani than English? What do they think?

No, I don't 'self-identify', my heritage makes be British and I have no other options to choose from because I have nothing to align me with another nation except Britain.

So if you have no other options you get to be English/ British? But if you have options it’s based on the colour of your skin you default to the country of your origin?

I don't see what skin colour has to do with anything

I agree skin colour doesn’t make you English. I wonder what does and why you can’t quite articulate why you don’t consider me English and what does make someone English. It’s a mystery.

Are immigrants from Britain living in India considered Indian? I honestly have no idea.

This is a genuine question by the way, not meant to be inflammatory.

I doubt that the kind of British people living in Bangalore working for a tech firm or bank for a few years and then returning home would be.

But the British people who have settled in India longer term would. There is a significant Anglo Indian community and most Indians would consider them an Indian sub culture. My parents would often remark that Cliff Richard was Indian.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Indian_people

Similar to the UK then? I guess Anglo Indian similar to British Asian? And when Mr Richard phones up a call centre in India...?