AIBU for overreacting to comment by John Lewis

[filletofishmeal]

I was on the phone to John Lewis as they failed to deliver an item ( did not put it on their load), and as the person was processing a new delivery date he was making small talk about the reason why I was purchasing a TV. I said it was for the cricket world up, and he asked who I thought I was going to win the tournament. I replied that I am British, so am backing England. He then told me that my name does not sound British, where are my parents from?
I snapped at that point and got a bit shirty with him, as I felt it was unreasonable for him to assume I am not British just because of my surname.

What is your point then?

She could have done. She didn’t. Sometimes people say things I think are a bit odd. I try not to follow up with a random racist question when they do.

What is your point then?

Exactly what I said. That it doesn't follow by being British one would support England in an event.

Why wouldn’t it? If OP is born in England or lives here, why wouldn’t she support England?

You're in England, speaking to someone else in England, and they ask who'll you'll be supporting, so you just say 'England".

Although to be fair, maybe the OP is Welsh, Irish, or Scottish? She never said she was English.

Because plenty of people will support Pakistan or India!

And of course any other nations from which they may originate or have associations with.

Why wouldn’t it? If OP is born in England or lives here, why wouldn’t she support England?

But she didn't say she was English. She said 'British'. And it absolutely does not follow that by being British (which covers FOUR separate countries) the one would support ENGLAND.

I am Scottish, of Irish extraction (but still British!). Many, many non-English Brits that I know would rather have their teeth pulled out with rusty pliers than support an English team at sport. Not a particularly pleasant attitude, but hardly uncommon.

So the statement "I am British so I will be supporting England" may sound strange to the ears of non-English British people. Which is what I commented on. Whether OP feels comfortable identifying as "British" versus "English", it's still not a statement I think you'd hear from the mouths of many non-English Brits.

Why can’t she say why she’s supporting England?

Why do you need to police her language?

I think it's just clumsy conversation, and in previous jobs I've experienced trying to fill dead space on the phone with a client while you're sorting whatever it is they need, and only really having half concentration on the conversation.

FWIW I've also got a non-British surname and have been asked 'oh, I thought you'd be from X when I saw your name, is your family / Husband from there?' - The answer being yes, my Husband is.

I’ve already explained why many BAME people are uncomfortable describing themselves as English rather than British.

Even when you fill in forms it always has options such as British Asian etc.

You seem determined to dismiss this.

I’ve already explained why many BAME people are uncomfortable describing themselves as English rather than British.

Even when you fill in forms it always has options such as British Asian etc.

You seem determined to dismiss this.

I'm not dismissing anything. We don't know whether the OP is English or not. You seem to be assuming that she is, and I too, am assuming that she is. And the reason I am assuming that she is English is because I don't believe too many non-English Brits would come out with a statement like "I am British therefore I support England".

My observation isn't a dismissal of the OP feeling uncomfortable identifying as English. It's because of of the linking of being "British" with naturally supporting an English sports team. The one doesn't follow the other and I think non-English Brits would be more aware of this (and in some cases, seriously hostile to the idea).

@Butchyrestingface

I understand where you are coming from but your background is different to the OPs.

If I say I’m British not many people would argue. I have a passport, the government recognises me as British and you’d be openly racist if you deny it.

If I say I’m English, despite the fact I’ve lived here for decades and speak English with an English accent, someone like perfectpuss would always query it. They blatantly say you don’t get to take on a nationality just by living there. So what do I have to do to be English? It’s not about my parents because they’ve both lived here for many decades; they left their countries of origin as babies. So what could ever make me English in the eyes of someone like perfecrpuss? I’m always going to lose at this game, so I rarely say I’m English.

Most forms don't have options for anyone to be English- it's usually British for everyone.

I would never refer to myself as English. But I do support England.

So yes I could conceivably say I’m British and I support England.

Because I have not been given the right to call myself English by our society.

But this was over the phone! He didn't know what the OP looked like!

I had an unusual maiden name that once people stopped laughing, started a conversation about its origins.

I never found it a problem

So yes I could conceivably say I’m British and I support England.

Saying "I'm British AND I support England" is quite different to saying "I'm British THEREFORE I support England".

The latter would get a lot of people's backs up and creates an alignment that really doesn't exist.

I have huge sympathy with people not wanting to identify as 'English'. I don't particularly want to identify as 'British' but my passport says otherwise.

Christ, he's was just making small talk.

Would it have been better received if he'd rephrased it to "that's a nice name, where's it from?"

But why do you want to 'be English'? Are you not proud of your origins? I simply cannot envisage ever calling myself something other than that which I was born and brought up as. My MIL is Scottish- despite not living in Scotland for over 60 years- she hasn't become English by living in England- why would she want to rename herself?

The alignment is that England is in Britain. Are we really going to make BAME people responsible for not getting non-English Brits backs up by calling themselves British and therefore supporting England?

Presumably the JL staff could see OP lives in England, so would it get his back up anyway?

None of my white friends had this issue or worry when they first met me or meet other POC.

Non-racist, educated white people are fine to have “chit chat” with all races as they know they won’t say something ignorant.

the problem was in the past many People in Britain grew so accustomed to saying outrageously racist things through comedy acts, in their workplaces in the pubs etc. I won’t even repeat some of the things I heard growing up in the 80s/90s. So now when they are being asked to be civil and decent it feels like counter-oppression to some.

The alignment is that England is in Britain. Are we really going to make BAME people responsible for not getting non-English Brits backs up by calling themselves British and therefore supporting England?

Scotland, NI and Wales are also in Britain, so it definitely doesn't follow that by being British anyone would therefore support England.

You realise there are Scottish, NI and Welsh BAME people though, don't you? It's not a case of (English) BAME people versus white non-English Brits. I can't see the BAME Scots I grew up with making that statement either, because we don't use the word "British" and "English" interchangeably in the way that a lot of English people seem to.

But why do you want to 'be English'? Are you not proud of your origins?

I don't think the PP IS saying she wants to be English. Just that if she were to identify that way, it would be questioned in a way it wouldn't be if she were white, with blonde hair and blue eyes. Speaking perfect English with an English accent isn't enough to establish an English identity in some people's minds. Which must be quite wearing.

@Poohpooh I wouldn't follow that line of questioning. It's on a par with the age old "but where are you REALLY from?:

But why would I say that I’m from the country of my grandparents’ origin? I’d never even set foot there until I was an adult and that was for a sightseeing holiday not to visit family or friends none of whom live there. I don’t speak the language and don’t follow the customs or celebrate the festivals. My grandparents all spent longer living in England than they did in the country of their birth. Seriously, when do you get to say you are English?

As it is, I am proud of my origins, happy to talk about them, cook the food my parents and grandparents use to cook, used names from my culture of origin for my children. Generally I’d be happy to describe myself as from there. But also I’m British. I’m not Scottish, Welsh or Irish but someone like you would never accept me as English. Wonder why?