AIBU for overreacting to comment by John Lewis

[filletofishmeal]

I was on the phone to John Lewis as they failed to deliver an item ( did not put it on their load), and as the person was processing a new delivery date he was making small talk about the reason why I was purchasing a TV. I said it was for the cricket world up, and he asked who I thought I was going to win the tournament. I replied that I am British, so am backing England. He then told me that my name does not sound British, where are my parents from?
I snapped at that point and got a bit shirty with him, as I felt it was unreasonable for him to assume I am not British just because of my surname.

People will be terrified to speak at this rate

If only this we’re true. But yet so many of these people who are “terrified to speak” keep coming back to defend the racism.

They don’t. I wasn’t born here. Nor was my son. We are both immigrants. But both of us still have passports that say “British” on them.

Genuinely asking, how is it racist? What exactly is being defended? What is so wrong with what he said and what impact if any should we reasonably expect that to have on OP and others?

The OP says she is British. The JL employee tells her her name doesn’t sound British (ie he denies that she is British) and asks her where her parents are from (and by implication where she is really from). Denying that a non-white British person is British is simply put, racist.

He never denied it though? He never said 'you're not British because at one point you clearly have heritage elsewhere', what if he was just interested to know where she was from before hand? What if he, himself had a similar background and was starting a conversation? Had the OP not become so shirty she may have found out but people like her and you who instantly assume everything is the worst case scenario is exactly why people feel afraid to speak. Being accused of racism is the worst thing you can be accused of so most people just avoid absolutely any conversation now about it which is so unhealthy. All I'm suggesting is that the OP, you and anyone else holding the view that it was absolutely racism and offensive with no other possibility that the call handler was taking the conversation in another direction need to maybe open your minds a bit and explore what is being said some more before labelling someone you don't know, can't see and don't know the history of a racist.

I’m British Pakistani and I get asked a lot where I’m from as I’m from a region where people are very fair skinned with very light brown hair and often green eyes so most people can’t work out where I’m from and I often get asked if I’m Italian, Turkish, French etc. I always say ‘Pakistan’ because I know if I say ‘London’ they will ask ‘where are your parents from?’

The thing is it’s annoying but I could live with it, however lot of white people get so awkward when I say Pakistan. They expect a European country. And then when they find out that I don’t drink alcohol, they get even more awkward because they automatically ‘other’ me.

I have a couple of white friends but in my experience very few white people can handle practicing non-drinking Pakistani Muslims.

Poor bloke is probably encouraged to make conversation.

Some folks are just looking to be offended.

If he said your name sounded Spanish, or German, is that offensive, or racist?

You may choose to deny it but the implication of the statement “your name doesn’t sound British” after the op clearly stated that she was British is clear.

(Btw I’m happy to talk about my cultural background and do often and being asked isn’t itself offensive but context is key.)

And perhaps you could be a little bit more open minded and think about how the OP felt during this exchange? Why are the call handler’s feelings more important than hers? Why is it worse to be accused of racism than to be subjected to it?

Would it be ok to ask about her heritage if her name was Pfeiffer or Zaugg or Dominguez or Baardwijk or Desjardins?

I'm Pakistani, this is why I'm asking. I have tried to consider the OP's feelings during the exchange but it baffles me and not because I lack sympathy, let alone empathy. I cannot see how this could offend anyone?

The reason I don't want anyone else to be accused of racism when it isn't there is because people fail to see the other side of these issues. What starts off as people labelling every single thing as racism ends up with a whole subculture of people always being treated differently. It is noticeable when everyone tip toes around conversations, scared to offend you. It makes you a victim of something before anything has happened. It means when things really do need raising everyone is terrified to deal with it normally and it all gets blown out of proportion, often on your behalf but without you wanting it to be that way.

There are plenty of people out there who could easily be subject to the exact same exchange and not feel this way and would worry about ever making someone afraid to ask about their heritage, in fear of being labelled a racist. I'd be mortified if I'd caused anyone to feel that way and I'm dissapointed that in this day and age nobody is level headed enough to be able to come at something like this from a kinder or more thoughtful perspective. The idea of a call handler for John Lewis seeing someone's name and thinking 'ah my chance to get a dig in' is ridiculous and it infantalises anyone with a foreign name or heritage as though we're all brainless and vulnerable, unable to decipher between a genuine issue and a harmless comment.

Why are you sensitive about your name? It's just small talk, he has hardly anything to go on. Is it a touchy subject for some reason?

I'm married to a man with a polish grandad. I always get people say oh my next door neighbour is Polish, lovely people. He gets loads of questions though as he has a very Polish christian name as well but he never gets bothered by it.

People who go around accusing people of racism and refusing to accept other opinions are probably just a little bit bigoted.

I'm Pakistani, this is why I'm asking.

I cannot see how this could offend anyone?

I find it amazing that as a Pakistani you haven’t had one of those awful “Where are you from? No really where are you from? Ok then, where were you born? So your parents, where are they from?” conversations. If you had, I’m sure you’d understand why this is upsetting.

The idea of a call handler for John Lewis seeing someone's name and thinking 'ah my chance to get a dig in' is ridiculous

I don’t think anyone thinks he thought like that. I for one said it was probably unconscious bias. However, just because it’s unconscious, doesn’t mean it’s not harmful.

Sorry, we’re you the poster whose first comment mumsnet deleted because they thought it was racist?

Do you always treat service people so poorly?

Translate as:

’Do you always refuse to bow down to racism like a good little brown girl?’

What I can’t understand having thought about it is why tell the JL man that you are British in the first place, though he could have asked where your surname originated from rather than where your parents are from.

Because HE ASKED WHO SHE WAS SUPPORTING IN THE CRICKET, AND SHE SAID SHE WOULD BE SUPPORTING HER HOME TEAM.

It was a perfectly reasonable and polite response and nobody made him turn it into a "your name sounds 'ethnic' and 'ethnic' people aren't really British" thing.

I can't imagine replying 'I am British so I will be supporting England" I'm pretty sure most people would have just said England and it wouldn't have been unusual for someone of Asian origin to have said Pakistan or India. The OP clearly brought attention to her race with her statement and it's pretty obvious she had a point to make.

I can't imagine replying 'I am British so I will be supporting England"

It's such a non sequitur, innit? ABE.

The UK hasn’t made BAME people feel welcome enough to call themselves as English. There are still people calling up LBC radio and saying “Just because a dog is born in a stable doesn't make it a horse."

So if if you have a problem with OP saying ‘I am British so I will be supporting England’, think about why she didn’t feel comfortable saying ‘I am English so I will be supporting England".

It’s both fascinating and depressing that more than thirty years after Norman Tebbit talked about the “cricket test” this conversation is ongoing but now in reverse. Now you have to justify supporting England because you’re not really English with that funny sounding name.

So if if you have a problem with OP saying ‘I am British so I will be supporting England’, think about why she didn’t feel comfortable saying ‘I am English so I will be supporting England".

I don't have any issue with her identification of being BRITISH rather than ENGLISH. That wasn't my point.

She could have stated she wanted England to win without prefacing it.