Disability/abortion debate in UK

[Bretontops]

www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-11-04/teenager-with-downs-syndrome-meets-rishi-sunak-over-abortion-laws

This cause went to the High Court and was rejected, so why is Rishi meeting with her?

I’m getting irritated with this ‘pressure group’ who basically want to ensure more babies with disabilities are born by stealth, by taking choice away from women. I’m also dubious about how many of these disabled people are truly advocating for themselves and how many have been ‘encouraged’ to do so by pro life parents.

In some cases the parents had the screening but slipped through the net - so they didn’t make an active decision to parent a disabled child, but now expect others to do so, to affirm their circumstances presumably?

Prepared to be told AIBU, but I feel we should be able to discuss it as it’s potentially our rights they want to restrict.

YANBU but I didn’t want your thread to go unanswered. Others far more articulate than me will be along soon!

Is it true that conditions such as cleft lip is considered a ‘severe disability’ when it comes to abortion ? Is there a list of conditions classified severe ?

If the law has to be changed against any perceived discrimination then it should be to extend the current limit for all pregnancies not to reduce the limit for anyone.

They aren't asking for that though, almost like theres an agenda against women's reproductive rights.

It is in New Zealand, they have some very controversial abortion laws including being allowed to abort just because you dislike the gender.

You should be allowed to abort just because you don't want to be pregnant.

That is extreme re gender

I do think clarity is needed and a decisive list of conditions considered severe or criteria to be met not just individual non medical opinion on severity

what is your source for Scotland being notorious for racism? I can’t think it’s anymore racist than other parts of the UK

Cleft palet I think. The condition can mean the face is practically in two halves.

Millie believes this policy is discriminatory and has asked lawmakers: "Do you think I'd be better off if I had never been born?

This is very disingenuous. No-one is saying that pregnancies where a disability is diagnosed should be terminated, just that they can be should the parents choose that. I assume they'd be equally happy for abortion to be available to term for all pregnancies as that would be equal.

You should be allowed to abort for any reason at all.

@XenoBitch I guess we have slightly differing views on abortion as I think by that time you'd have come to terms with actually having a baby. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

It doesn’t sit right though that you can say I want to be pregnant with a girl but not a big or vice versa? Either you want to be pregnant or not regardless of gender

I saw another parent advocate on Instagram saying she’s ‘tired of having to justify her child’s worth’. To who? Is anybody actually challenging her child’s worth? Or does she feel other women have to act in a way that affirms her life, otherwise she will draw the inference that they see her child as ‘lesser’? I’ve always believed abortion rights are absolutely not at odds with a society that protects and values disabled people.

I support female bodily autonomy, it’s the woman’s choice if she wants an abortion, she should not have to justify it to anyone.

big-boy (autocorrect 🤦‍♀️)

Well Millie there will not be the one caring 24/7 for a child with disability. It's not for everyone, not everyone can do it and survive it intact.

There is part missing!
For a child with disability which was forcefully born

I’m on the fence with this one but you sound very ableist.
Would you ask if anyone else without a disability was campaigning because they wanted to?

Yanbu op, I'm sick of this coming up again and again. Leave the laws alone. My niece has downs and my brother is a big advocate of this cause, it winds me right up. They knew their baby had downs before she was born, they made the CHOICE to continue with that pregnancy. They now want to remove that same choice from other women and couples. No one is forced to abort a disabled child so there is no need to change the law

Also agree with pp, I can't see anything very terrible with sex-specific abortion but I'm aware I have quite extreme views on abortion. I'd be happy if any woman could abort for any reason up to full term

Also, doesn't rishi have more important things to be getting on with like, I don't know, fixing the shit show which is our economy at the moment

I completely understand the argument for abortion further on when people find out late their child may have a low quality of life (or equally the parents do not believe it is fair to bring a disabled child into world due to their life circumstances etc).

But chances of this are slim considering how many find out in enough time to have the tests that are now offered to show chances of Down syndrome etc etc.

Personally I couldn't understand aborting a baby almost fully formed just because I dislike the gender?

The minute you open the door a crack to say “oh, well, you can’t abort for that reason, it’s distasteful” the door flies wide open to restricting abortion altogether. Any reason, any time; as early as possible, as late as necessary.

This is specifically about abortion after 24 weeks. At the moment there is not a defined list of what counts as significant disability to extend the abortion limit until birth. Obviously if a baby isn't compatible with life then it's not controversial but for other conditions, especially those with good life expectancy, I personally think abortion should not be allowed past 24 weeks unless in extreme circumstances

I know someone who is a very vocal part of that group and a parent of a disabled child.

They refused all screenings for Downs syndrome, Edwards and Pataus based only on thinking they were low risk due to their age. A very niave decision and one I was very shocked by at the time.

Their opinions on this case have certainly driven a wedge between us as they see my views as a personal attack against their child while I see their views as an attack against women. I also can't understand how someone who chose not to test would be happy to take that choice away from other families knowing the difficulties their family face caring for a child with special needs.

How dare this woman try to insinuate that other women can't be trusted to make the choice that is best for their baby, themselves and their family as a whole.

Cleft palate can be very severe and cause a life long disability.

@WarrickDavisAsPlates did she have a birth diagnosis?