To expect my DiL to come to us for Xmas?

[maryanne3]

Another year, and yet again my daughter in law has announced that she will be going to her parents for Xmas. She says DS can do as he chooses, and in the past he has just come to us by himself; but I know he misses being with her at Xmas. We get along well with her otherwise, and I understand that she comes from a big family, some of whom live in France, and it is difficult to organise them all getting together over Xmas, but they have been a couple for 16 years now and she has never come to us for the day. AIBU to expect that we get a turn every other year?

Come over dear! There is a place at our table. x

I think where you misunderstand it is that they have created a formula which they think works and you think doesn't.

Bingo.

I know, but sometimes it seems a bit rich that I should just accept that I will never get what DiL mother gets every year.

You have said yourself she doesn't get it every year.

Good luck @maryanne3 I'm sorry posters have been piling up on you - youve been quietly accommodating since DS met his GF now DW, and I understand your frustration. I think it would be so nice for you and your family if this DIL suddenly said she and DS would come to you for at least part of xmas day to join in with your family too - as hers is only an hour away, this is defo not unreasonable to hope or even expect it to happen.

But loooks unlikely, so I suggest just have main xmas on xmas day with your other DSs and DILs, then low key 2nd xmas with this couple. Wish you a merry xmas regardless, and hope you will come back later and update.

Sometimes it has been him, sometimes it has been both of them.

Sorry, but this reads like you've assumed it has come from them as a couple. That's very different from coming from her as her own person, from her own mouth. Something you refused to clarify. If you chose to be deliberately evasive, people will make assumptions and sometimes they'll be on the money. Like the fact this all started when she was a teenager which is obviously going to be a factor in wanting to be with her family.

Basically you want something you can't have. You can either accept you do Christmas on another day, plenty of people do, or you insist you are not doing all the work twice.

I don't think yabu for not wanting to do two Christmas meals, but you really need to put your foot down and say no if this is something you don't want to do.

Equally though, you can't then complain you can't have everyone together. Christmas day is clearly not an option.

Just pick an option and don't sabotage your relationships for one day. Not worth it.

Why would you expect it in the first place? It’s been 16 years and them married for eight so why are you still holding onto this expectation when it obviously isn’t going to happen. You can’t change it so why are you dwelling on it? You’re giving this way too much headspace instead of looking at what you do have. You have your family for the holidays yet you are dwelling on not having DIL for Christmas Day. You may see DIL as your daughter but she is not and wants to spend her Christmas Day with her own mother, father and siblings. You are getting the same thing that DIL’s mother gets when your son comes for Christmas Day instead of going with his wife.

Life isn’t fair. We don’t always get what we want and dwelling on it for years instead of accepting what is pretty much a standard for DIL makes you unreasonable. Let it go, for your sake.

If I think to my sister who insists on coming to my parents' every year - it's sort of her choice. Just like in the case of DIL - I used to live abroad and come back for Xmas so for my sister this was one of the few times she would see myself and her nieces. But in general, I just think she assumes thats how things are. However, my BIL has also never once come to ours i.e. they just do their own thing and everyone is fine with it. My BIL comes to my parents at other times as we all live in the same city, while my sister does go away with her husbands' family on holidays because they live elsewhere in the UK. It sort of works.

However, if you are waiting for DIL to change the pattern - she wont! So dont do anything this year that you hope will be different next year. You wont all your children under one roof - tell your son that it will be lovely to see him when he next mentions Christmas. Dont just say oh it's fine when it isnt. But no - clearly your DIL has no intention of spending her Xmas' at yours.

I don't think I was evasive about the age at all (she was 20 btw, so not a teenager). At some point I mentioned that her siblings were in their 30s, so it is reasonable to assume that so is she. 16 years from that would take you down to teenage/early 20s. It was there, I was not hiding it. I also have not mentioned her height or the colour of her hair, but I am not being "evasive" about it, just not been relevant so far. Also, I think it is fair to assume that if they both say something, then they agree on the position. It is you who are doing logical somersaults in order to maintain your picture of some controlling sexist demon.

Reading your posts you are obviously resentful of this situation, but I do agree with previous people who have pointed out that you have created a situation that works for your DIL and DS and they no doubt think it's all fine and dandy.

I understand your disappointment but don't really understand why you swap Christmas for everybody else as that is just not necessary. Christmas Day present opening etc is on Christmas Day with those that are coming for Christmas lunch/dinner etc. Then you have New Year's Day lunch/Boxing Day or whatever with your DIL and DS.

One thing I always think about Christmas is that when we are children we have to do what our parents wanted, but when we become adults we then have a choice to make as to what suits us best. You have had your Christmas festivities as you wanted when your children were young, you still have your other children and their partners (and your DS) for some Christmas Day events now.

You seem to be somewhat fixated that your DIL's mother always gets the Christmas Day. But she obviously has family visiting from France who have travelled over and your DIL wants to spend her day there with them. I really can understand this honestly. It's their family tradition and it all works for them at the moment. She doesn't see anything wrong with spending Christmas Day with her family, offers your son the choice to go where he wants and then catches up with your family another day during the festive period. I can't actually see the problem with it either.

Would it not be easier just to accept the status quo and focus on all the positives of seeing your own children over the festive period even if it isn't all on Christmas Day? It's clear that your DIL wants to see her family on the 25th (many of whom have travelled to be there) and it's just the way it is. Enjoy what you have and try and not be resentful of what her own mother has.

I know, but sometimes it seems a bit rich that I should just accept that I will never get what DiL mother gets every year. And before people pile on, I am not suggesting it is a competition, or a race, or anything. Just mere incomprehension that a single person's stubbornness (and I am thinking of said DiL sibling here) should have such damaging ripples across other families, and we should just suck it up. But would you really want to swap places with DIL's mum and be the mother of that unreasonable sibling? With children who live abroad and may not always be able to come home every year (as presumably happened in the pandemic)? Aren't you glad you have children who so enjoy having Christmas all together with their mum they are happy to postpone the event so they can do it together? They must have had lovely childhood Christmases. I know who I'd rather be.

Ironically, no I did not have the Xmasses I wanted when they were children, since we always had in laws staying, for about a week. Did not mind so much with mine, but my MiL was horrible, and very religious being very disapproving of our secular xmas. (BTW the children have no recollection of this, and just remember great family Xmasses, so I am glad for their sake).

This is one of the reasons why I have determined to be the sort of MiL I aim to be, non-interfering, going along with everybody else's plans etc. And no I am not expecting my children to do exactly the same as I did. I just feel it would be nice, once in a while, to have all my family together for Xmas and not to have to always be the one to fit around another family.

@maryanne3 you talk about once in a while. It's been 16 years - why are you still holding on to the idea that they will ever change this formula. Unfortunately, because you've been so 'accommodating' all this time - I just dont see it changing. I also dont see how it would work for you to change it now.

If you are determined to be non interfering then you should stop trying to control where dil spends her Christmas day.

This is very clearly you being resentful because you did things on Christmas against your will. You resent your dil not having to sacrifice her happiness like you did. Times have changed and women are thankfully not expected to put everyone else first. DIL is being gracious enough to be happy with your son to spend Christmas at yours. That is the compromise.

Just because your mil had a different character doesn't mean your attempts to control your dil are correct.

The compromise of your own making is you do get your family around you. Your whole family compromises by having a second Christmas not on the day. The day is inconsequential. Either you want to do this, or you don't. You can't get everyone to march to the beat of your drum, no matter how lovely your intentions.

wow mate, you really should get a highly paid job as a psycho therapist, since you can so clearly read people's characters and motivations without having even met them. I resent my DiL not having to sacrifice her happiness? I am trying to control where she spends Xmas Day? At the danger of boring everybody rigid, I have done absolutely nothing to try to control her at all. I have always cheerfully accommodated her wish to be with her family on Xmas day every Xmas. I have simply come on to an anonymised forum to ask whether or not is a widespread assumption that this is an OK arrangement. Where is the control? Where is the requirement that she sacrifice her happiness. Stop the condemnation through exaggeration.

I began reading last night and have waded through your whole thread OP, and i'm glad you're still here! :)

I've got so much to say i don't know where to begin! I've got all DDs. Some late 20s and 1 under 10 with 2nd husband. So I'm a well seasoned MIL and a 'new' ish DIL, second time around. My XMIL had all boys. I understand the dynamic.

First off - your DS and his wife have been together since they were teens. They have been married for 8 years. Your ''16 looong years'' rhetoric - i know where you're coming from, they have been together 16 years and for all of those she's had xmas dinner with her family - but of course she wouldn't have been expected at yours on xmas day from the start. You need to drop this 16 years and counting thing. It's not healthy.

Secondly, i would love you to explore this a bit more: Up-thread someone posted - ''Have none of your other children shown any frustration at the way you are expecting them to change plans to whatever DIL and son want?''

and you said

''I think they bite their tongues so as not to cause problems. We all pretend it is just fine, no worries etc etc.''

So, in a nut shell (so difficult) my advice is to stop with the moving xmas. Stop moving other family member's xmas day to accommodate DS.

It is DS you are accommodating by the way. DIL is fine without xmas with you. You want to have a xmasy day with your son. He's wanting a xmasy day with you, but not enough to be sepparate from his wife every year. This is daft and making you and DS's issues into everyone else's issues.

Have your xmas on xmas day.

If DS or DIL ask to have a xmasy day with you on a different date say ''Sure! we'll go our for a lovely meal and have our pressies when we get back.'' (Or before you go or whatever).

Please put aside this ''fair/not fair'' thing. For your own sanity.

You've been told yes it's perfectly normal for families to have all sorts of arrangements and the majority have said yabu. And yes, it is boring the way you insist you are right without taking any of the well explained reasons why you may not be graced with her presence.

Honestly, either do the day or don't, but you are in charge of you so don't moan about being put out when you could just say no. Think you need to learn some assertiveness from dil.

I haven't seen any place where you've tried to control where DIL spends Christmas. You just wish that you could have them both on the day occasionally. I think it's a normal wish and I don't think you've said anything to DIL about it. It sounds like you've just left it to them and dealt with it, while wishing internally that they would spend a Christmas with you.

I don't think you should hold of Christmas day with the rest of the family. That's not fair on them. Just have a less formal catch up with DIL and your son later.

I also never pressure my DC about where to spend Christmas. I know what it's like to have family expectations around that day so we just didn't go to anyone and stayed home in the end. I don't want to be that mother/mother in law.

It's how it is when our children marry into different families. They have to find a way to involve both. One of mine goes to the ILs sometimes. I really wouldn't mind if they went every year because we see them a lot more during the year. On balance, I think we are lucky with that.

I suppose it depends on your definition of “family”. Yes, you are probably right that if they were to split she would drop out of our lives. (depends) However while they are together she is as welcome in this house as my own children, and included in all family events/celebrations/discussions.

Hmm, and yet I am told by other posters that she does not come to us because we must have horrible xmasses/I am a controlling MiL/ my son is the real problem. But don’t take it personally.

My bil is Deff like family.and I no my parents love him too. He also Deff sees himself as part of the family.
my family have divorced couple and the exs still keep in touch with the in laws as family.

you do need to stop shuffling Xmas around for this one son though. I can imagine your other children writing mumsnet posts of their own about this happening every time!

It is DS you are accommodating by the way. DIL is fine without xmas with you. You want to have a xmasy day with your son. He's wanting a xmasy day with you, but not enough to be sepparate from his wife every year. This is daft and making you and DS's issues into everyone else's issues.

Yes, I thought the talk of accommodation was odd there too. OP is not accommodating DIL because no accommodation from her is actually required. The DIL doesn't need anything from OP and thus nothing is being given.

The other thing which jumps out is the ''i want what she's having'' referring to DILs mum.

This is poison. Seriously. A bad mind set.

The years where your son has stayed with you on xmas day She (the other mother) hasn't had it all. She hasn't had ''everyone'' there. The years he has gone to her's, maybe she has? Maybe all her dreams have come true?! But it's not every year of these 16 looong years thing, is it? And some of her kids live abroad now ... . Anyway - don't even get started into this counting and comparing business. Madness lies there.

When 2 families collide there are a thousand different nuances between relationships which open up. When there are siblings getting married (like your other DCS) 3, 4, 5, 6 families are colliding and intertwining. Your other DCs will have thier own in laws to negotiate with.

Some stuff is hidden under the surface. Here's a quick example of one of mine. My eldest is engaged. They have bought a place. He's a lovely bloke, but on the surface he seems a bit shackled to his parents. It would be easy for me to think ''i'm sick of his parent's views being held sacred. I'm sick of his parents being the ones put first so often''. BUT - he's an only child. Now I know what it's like to be an only child because i am one. I was the apple of my parents eye and there was no siblings to be interested in - just me. I've got 4 DCs, but for them there will be no other weddings, or DC moving outs, or xmases with other DCs for them - it's just him. It was like that with my parents and me. I'm not going to push against that with them. I know your DIL is not an only, and that isn't the point. I'm saying you bend with the wind. There just isn't fair or not fair in some situations. Don't let it drive you mad.

If he did have siblings who lived abroad and who all came together on xmas day at his parents and he wanted to spend every xmas day there i'd get it. As it is sometimes DD1 wants to come here to have dinner with her family and sometimes wants to go there and have xmas dinner with him. No probs. I have other kids! And so do you.

My DD2's xmas is also complicated. Her MIL, like you, has all sons. Some of them are flaky and turn up/don't turn up on the day with no notice. For the last 5 years DD2 has stayed with her MIL, at her request, for xmas dinner. She likes having a girl (my DD) around. DD2 will then come to ours asap for the afternoon to be with her siblings. FIne. (this year she's coming to us for the day. and that's lovely, but not her fiance, he's staying with his mum). I've told them all to do what they wish - the door is open all day. Just let me know by mid Nov for food catering.

If DH and i ever find ourselves alone for xmas we'll bugger off to a lovely hotel and have someone else do the cooking
(although with DD4 still being at primary age that'll be few year yet)

I find this strange. My in-laws are most definitely my family. I know we're not blood relations but we are family. My MIL is grandmother to my children and shares a lot of DNA with them just as I do! It's weird not to see them as family.
Look at your uncles and aunts - some of them are not blood relatives but have married in to the family. They're still very much your uncle/aunt and part of the family.
One of the nice things about marrying my husband is gaining another family. I never had a sister, now I have several sisters in law! We may not always see eye to eye but it's the same in my family.