To expect my DiL to come to us for Xmas?

[maryanne3]

Another year, and yet again my daughter in law has announced that she will be going to her parents for Xmas. She says DS can do as he chooses, and in the past he has just come to us by himself; but I know he misses being with her at Xmas. We get along well with her otherwise, and I understand that she comes from a big family, some of whom live in France, and it is difficult to organise them all getting together over Xmas, but they have been a couple for 16 years now and she has never come to us for the day. AIBU to expect that we get a turn every other year?

Too straightforward. It happens to be the case that once sons take up with a long-term partner, there's a hierarchy when it comes to his own family relationships. MiL and FiL are not at the top of that. His immediate loyalties will lie with the family unit he's created, which is as it should be.

I don't disagree with that, but why should the woman's family suddenly become the top priority at the expense of the man's? Does the 'family unit he's created' only include his partner's family and not his?

But what I don’t understand is why sons are supposed to ditch their parents, but daughters are not? Bit tough on us who only had boys, surely?

Sexism op, you know, like the kind you are demonstrating by blaming your dil for your son's demands.

I think where you misunderstand it is that they have created a formula which they think works and you think doesn't. Your DIL doesn't want to spend xmas with you guys, your choice is to let your DS that you would like him to come to yours for Xmas or not see him. She isn't going to come, its not like she wake up one day and go 'oh its time to go to my IL' - she clearly thinks that this formula is ok.

You want to see you son stop being a pushover or over accommodating every time he says 'I can come to yours' - just say 'yes, that would be lovely end of. And that can be the formula from then on.

You seem to have decided that if you bend over backwards, they will at some point realize it and change what they do. They won't, they just assume it suits you. If it doesn't suit you, then stop telling your son to go to the in laws. But she won't come to yours, she isn't interested, you don't have kids and she isn't changing. She's been doing the same thing for 16 years, it won't change now.

And while it is seismic- in this situation she isn't picking your family over hers. He actions seems to indicate that she would pick her family over spending it either with you or her husband. Thats not unusual. What I don't get is why you try to make sure that your son spends it with his wife when she ain't that bothered. He is not 12, qm sure he can enjoy his xmas without her, she clearly can.

I say this as someone whose sibling always spends their xmas with us but without her partner. They have always done that. I think for my sibling, they see xmas as something they do with their biological family. They have done this since they got together with their partner age 19 and it has been decades now. Am assuming it might change once they have kids and won't be able to go to different places. But it won't change till then. Its not like my family has enforced that, we didn't grow up Christian but my sibling just decided to do that and we go along with it.

But what I don’t understand is why sons are supposed to ditch their parents, but daughters are not? Bit tough on us who only had boys, surely?

I don't know about 'supposed'. The idea that anyone should 'ditch' their parents is quite extreme, and in most cases I doubt it would come to that! It also sounds one-sided here because this is Mumsnet, but the in-law relationship can be an awkward one from both sides: the old-school comedians made a fortune telling jokes about it. That said, as mother to a boy albeit he's still very young, it's certainly a question that has occurred to me.

It's pointless denying that in situations where PiLs take against their child's chosen partner, if they make this their hill to die on or turn it into a major battleground then they're unlikely to have the upper hand. Those are the kinds of situations that can end up NC.

It's a tricky relationship at times and one that has to be managed carefully, is all I'm saying. It doesn't have to become a clash of wills and just as much as it would be pointless dictating to her, you don't have to tolerate her dictating to you, either.

I am asking a genuine question about what is considered “normal” - I think the answer is that there is no such thing as "normal" since families are all different (we all think our own situation is "normal" because that's normal to us). DIL has a particular set of circumstances - siblings coming over from abroad (see @Wallywobbles comments) and also an expectation from a single sibling that Christmas will continue in exactly the same way as it did when they were children. That's probably why she's perfectly happy for your DS to spend Christmas with you - because he didn't figure in their childhood Christmases. I do question what will happen if they eventually have children - will they always have to have Christmas with her parents (like the earlier poster who said she had never created any Christmas traditions with her own DCs at home because they had always spent Christmas with grandparents and now they were grown up)? What I find unreasonable (and not "normal" if you like) is that you postpone your own celebrations, present opening etc and that of other families members who are joining you until DS and DIL can be there. I wonder what the rest of the family think about that when it's their turn to have Christmas with you? Have Christmas at Christmas with whoever is there and then have another celebration (or not) when you see DS and DL.

I will reiterate this once more, but you clearly do not want to listen. Over the course of 16 years it has been a mixture of him and BOTH OF THEM, saying, could we do Xmas another day, or "we could have our Xmas on..." so not just son. Also I have gone along with it because I would like some sort of Xmas festivity with my son and his wife, and not have it just be a visit, so yes, the decs are left up, pressies given, nice meal cooked. However you clearly have an agenda here of wanting to cast me as some evil demon; so I will let you fill your boots mate.

@maryanne3 how old is your son and his wife?

mid thirties.

It rather depends on how long the other siblings are going to be around. If they will be there when said son and DiL visit they often accord themselves that it would be nice to keep Xmas Day til they can be there, and we do something low key on Xmas Day. Other times when they have had to get away we have just done two Xmasses.

So for a large part of the 16 years you keep specifically mentioning actually the DIL was a teenager/ not even at the age to graduate uni!

I knew this would be the case.

You can’t go on and on about the 16 Christmases when they got together at 18!

I assume you wouldn't take decorations down straight after Christmas anyway.
I'd assume it wouldn't be difficult to save their parents and do everyone else's on Christmas Day.
Don't cook a Christmas dinner. Do something easy. Oven food. Sandwiches. Nibbles. Done.

Honestly I just want you to help yourself, you are doing this to no ends. You are not going to be able to change their minds by bending over backwards. If anything, you've made it more convenient for them.

And that's the first time you've said dil has asked CF requests too, so you will have to excuse me for thinking he was being entitled solo.

But however CF they are being, no, you won't get to control her. The sooner you realise that the sooner you can start building a tradition with the people who are there.

16 Xmasses is how many it has been. I am not saying that I would necessarily have expected anything other than her going to her parents when she was (20 when they got together) but they have been married for 8 years now, and I did think that as they became an adult couple there would be a bit more even-handedness.

No it is not the first time I have said it, you obviously have not read all my posts. Read the one that starts "you have asked me to precis 16 years of conversations"

It rather depends on how long the other siblings are going to be around. If they will be there when said son and DiL visit they often accord themselves that it would be nice to keep Xmas Day til they can be there, and we do something low key on Xmas Day. Other times when they have had to get away we have just done two Xmasses. Well that sounds perfectly reasonable and siblings are happy to wait and celebrate all together which is rather nice. I know you would like to have everyone together on Christmas Day, but it sounds like you have the next best thing - a family who all want to get together and celebrate Christmas with their mum (even if it is a couple of days late). You must have had lovely Christmases together when they were children for them to want to do this so I would congratulate yourself on that and continue to organise festive get-togethers that everyone wants to be part of, even if they are not on Christmas Day. That's your "normal" and it sounds rather enviable.

@luxxlisbon how can in 16 years the majority of it be the DIL was in her teens or at uni. That doesn’t add up

Give it up, op. You're talking to people who are using your thread to parade their own issues rather than to engage with yours.

I know, but sometimes it seems a bit rich that I should just accept that I will never get what DiL mother gets every year. And before people pile on, I am not suggesting it is a competition, or a race, or anything. Just mere incomprehension that a single person's stubbornness (and I am thinking of said DiL sibling here) should have such damaging ripples across other families, and we should just suck it up.

Yes, I was coming to that conclusion.

But you do get it OP as your son comes some years? So you do get all your children?

I like my DiL enough to consider her one of the family, as I do them all. DiL mother has had a lot of Xmasses with children and partners there all together on one day; there is nothing like a big crowd, with everybody surrounded by those most important to them. It seems I am not to expect that ever on Xmas day.

If she was insisting that ds stayed with her every year, then you’d have a point. But she leaves the choice up to him, so you also need to leave the choice up to him. He seems to be doing it fairly. Sometimes you, sometimes her.

Nope. Spent one Xmas day at theirs and didnt enjoy it at all. Couldn't relax, be in my own company. Felt on show.
It's not just about Christmas Day is it. It's the build up and the week afterwards. As long as you're all spending time together during the festive time then I don't see the issue. She doesn't keep your son away from you

I consider your DiL very fortunate. My own DM died many years ago far too young: it would have been lovely to have a MiL who accepted me as one of her own. But I've always kept my distance from my sister-in-law, who as a consequence was determined this was never going to happen and MiL is very easily led by her. I confess, though, that whilst I'm happy with our Christmases, secretly I'd give my eye-teeth to have just once or twice the very type of Christmas you're offering her.

We get what we're given. Isn't it a pity these life situations don't balance out on their own, though?