To expect my DiL to come to us for Xmas?

[maryanne3]

Another year, and yet again my daughter in law has announced that she will be going to her parents for Xmas. She says DS can do as he chooses, and in the past he has just come to us by himself; but I know he misses being with her at Xmas. We get along well with her otherwise, and I understand that she comes from a big family, some of whom live in France, and it is difficult to organise them all getting together over Xmas, but they have been a couple for 16 years now and she has never come to us for the day. AIBU to expect that we get a turn every other year?

My mother expected us at her house every Christmas Day - she’s now in her late eighties and it’s still happening. We never had a chance as a family to have our own Xmas traditions and my sons have now left home. This is the saddest post on here imo.
As long as the OP is not spending Christmas alone (that's not spelled out, but I don't think she is) then I don't see the problem. Have your own Christmas, traditions etc and invite son and DIL round on another day (Christmas Eve/Boxing Day/ News Year's Day/ any time in the Christmas period) and make that another tradition - and have a repeat Christmas Day if the mood takes you or do something entirely different. You say you get along well with DIL - I wouldn't be spoiling that relationship for the sake of what is essentially just a day. I'm just thanking my lucky stars that my MIL and parents were always so reasonable. My own mum always used to say (and indeed still says) I don't mind what you do it's just nice to have notice so I can plan for it or around it.

YABU I’m afraid. If DIL insisted your DS attend with her every year I would say, it would be okay to ask DS if he’d mind coming on his own to your family celebrations (with a caveat that if he doesn’t want to that’s fine too), but that’s not the case. He can go yours if he wants to and he sometimes does!

I hate Christmas precisely because of all this pressure. My family are quiet introverts, but Christmas is a big deal, it’s Christian, we go to midnight mass, my mother is an incredible cook, so the food is amazing, she is amazing at decorating so the house looks like a Folksy German concoction and presents aren’t really a thing, we make something handmade to gift each other, it’s more about being together, without any monetary gifting stress.

However I can’t attend family Christmas’s as my family live on the other side of the world. Because of this MIL expects us to attend every family Christmas with her.

I can’t bear her Christmas’s. The emphasis is on spending money on gifts as a couple saving for a house we can’t afford (they are well off), they are loud and binge drink, the food is beyond awful, we both hate it and there is no room in the day for us to do any of the things we’d enjoy, say a country walk or a nap when the volume gets too much.

The one Christmas we had alone she threw a massive strop, but oh wow it was the best Christmas we’ve both ever had together. This year we have a baby on the way, and we will use this to break the chain. It will be Christmas’s just our nuclear family from now on, and we can celebrate with them on another day, like Boxing Day.

My mil had her wedding planned by her mil, her Christmass taken over by her mil, her childcare taken over by her mil so she now tells me it’s my turn to make that sacrifice too. But actually it’s not. It was her choice to let her mil dictate her life, as it was yours to equally divy up Christmas’s. Just because you did that it doesn’t follow it’s fair for dil to do it too.

Your dil has siblings that live overseas, moments where everyone is able to come together (especially before children arrive to put a spanner in the works) I’m guessing are rare. This isn’t about Christmas so much is it is about DIL getting to see everyone all together at once. Don’t poison it by stating your displeasure with your son. You are lucky you have a great relationship with DIL, that too is rare, so safeguard it by not letting her or your ds know your disappointment and if you want him there, just ask if he would come this year.

Perhaps they're on the brink of divorce and she can barely stand to be around him at Xmas, never mind his family? The point is, you don't really know what goes on in the lives of your adult kids and the people they chose to marry - I wouldn't want someone at my house if they'd prefer to be elsewhere. She probably really loves Xmas with her family and it feels really special. You can still have a lovely Xmas on Xmas day without her, she's not your daughter. So I really don't understand why you'd want to force her to be somewhere she doesn't want to be.

I don't think you are being controlling or needy as some are suggesting, AIBU is odd like that sometimes, and posters project massively. I think its a case of you putting too much emphasis on Christmas Day itself, which many people really don't for one reason or another; you can still celebrate Christmas together without the needing to spend the actual day with her. You even see her Christmas Eve, which is still Christmas. I always used to prefer to go to my mums and dh his, and out of duty we alternated. Now we have own own dc we prefer to stay at home, but we still see parents and pil at some stage to celebrate Christmas. For your dil, if her family live overseas, this is perhaps the one time of year when everyone gets together, so its important to her that she joins in with that. Your ds and dil sound very sensible and considerate of each other to agree to split for the day, so that they both spend time with their families, particularly when the actual day obviously means so much to you. It sounds as though they are putting the needs of their families before their own, either that, or like many, the actual day isn't that big a deal.

That is what we have been doing for the last 16 years. It just seems a bit much, particularly when other children have carved out Xmas Day for us every so often, but we have to say "no we are having Xmas on New Year (presents opening, Xmas dinner etc) because DiL (and son) can't make it." Particularly when that does not work for other children, who are also trying to fit in in laws. We have had some years of staggered Xmas, Xmas day with some, and then them for another day; but honestly you do feel "Xmassed out" sometimes. As I am sure they are.

I get on very well with my in laws, I think. The fact that I am always welcome,, but never feel pressured to visit, is a big part of the reason, that and the fact that they're chilled more generally. One might actually suggest that visiting people who are not family or your own friends can feel awkward or an obligation not a pleasure, and the only way to avoid that is by the host being the sort of chilled person who is going to expect nothing from a potential guest, and little (other than basic manners) from actual guests.

It shouldn't be up to you whether your son is allowed to go though? He's an adult

This.

I carried on going to my parents instead of my in-laws for years as Christmas just felt so special there.

Hang on have I got this straight? You're delaying your own Xmas because they're not there? What the hell? That's the worst kind of emotional blackmail. Just have your Xmas on Xmas day. Let them do the same. Have a lovely time together on another day (you can still do presents). Delaying Xmas because someone who happens to be married to a member of your family isn't there is madness and unfair.

Not sure why you are getting quite such a hard time here OP. You're not being unreasonable to feel this way.

BUT

From what you've written particularly the part about where she dithered between coming to yours (Christmas by the seaside, I think you mentioned), do bare in mind she may have a 'mother' problem (or a father problem).

E.g Maybe her family are incredibly controlling, perhaps she has a parent who wails when she says she might go to yours for Christmas, brings out a huge guilt trip etc etc.

It might not be as clear cut that she doesn't want to come to you. She might be under significant pressure her side to go home.

I only say this because on the face it, my MIL would have no reason to think this - but it's something I face.

Maybe next time it's just you and your son you could probe a little - say 'it's really sad I've never had you both for Christmas, do you think X will ever come to spend a Christmas with us?' And perhaps he'll give you a bit more of an explanation.

But on the face of it, if there are no issues her side and even if she didn't want to attend every other year, she could do it once every few years - I don't think that's unreasonable.

All I'm saying is - perhaps it's her family rather than her that are the ones being unreasonable about it.

I do wonder if lots of MIL problems are generational. For me and my generation I think the inlaws are the parents of my partner. Obviously I want to get on with them, and they are grandparents to the children, but they are my husband's family, and that is the primary relationship. But for lots of older in-laws, especially MIL they seem to think the DIL should take on a daughter role.

It is not up to me. I am trying to be sympathetic to his feelings, as he is to mine. He probably feels, given he spent last year with her family, that I would appreciate having him here this year. Which is why he is offering. However I also know that he will miss being with her. So I am saying not too worry, its fine, we will see you another day. That is not "giving permission" nor controlling in my book.

I too can't see what you are having to compromise over. You still get to spend Christmas with family and sometimes with your DS and sometimes without.

I have to admit that some of your language and descriptive tone has quite an element of expectation as indeed does the actual title of your thread. i.e. you use the words "expect" / "consequences" etc etc.

Your DIL wishes to spend Christmas with her family abroad and that is what she chooses to do. I really don't see why this affects you and your Christmas Day festivities. She prefers to spend Christmas elsewhere but has a generally good relationship with you the rest of the year. Why can't you enjoy your Christmas your way and be at peace with her enjoying hers her way?

If this has been her preferred choice for 16 years it's not going to change now and actually no I don't think you have any "right" to expect Christmas to be taken in turns. I think that people should have the right to choose to do what they wish to do at Christmas and no I don't think there are any consequences involved by selecting to be abroad with her own family. Why does it actually matter or affect you if she wishes to be with her own family at Christmas, when you have a get together around New Year and enjoy a warm relationship the rest of the year?

"I don't think you are being controlling or needy as some are suggesting"

Define "expect" - to consider probable or certain; to consider reasonable, due, or necessary; to consider bound in duty or obligated.

Let's ask OP's question another way...

AIBU to consider it probable or certain that my DiL will come to us for Xmas, even though she has immediate family abroad that she rarely gets to see and likes to spend Xmas with?

AIBU to consider it necessary that my DiL will come to us for Xmas, even though she has immediate family abroad that she rarely gets to see and likes to spend Xmas with?

AIBU to consider my DiL bound in duty or obligated to come to us for Xmas, even though she has immediate family abroad that she rarely gets to see and likes to spend Xmas with?

Why are you doing this? I don't understand. Just keep the Christmas on actual day, why do you move it to NYE, because your son chose to be somewhere else? Don't you think it's unfair on your other 2 children? I would be pissed if my mum did something like this.

Chucking in all the permutations from the dictionary you have just opened is a bit silly really. It is clear that my post is asking is it reasonable to expect that a married couple should consider both sets of parents in their Xmas arrangements. I have been the opposite of controlling. I have not said a thing, I suspect they are unaware that I even mind. I do mind, but I have kept it to myself. Where is the control in that?

Aww hun.
Bless you. I don't post or respond generally but you called out to me with this one.
I don't think it's unreasonable and I'm in the same place.
I haven't spent Xmas with my son for a few years now as they spend it with her mum. It hurt the first time but I think I've got used to it and they are entitled to spend where they like i suppose.
I got around it by creating 2 christmases generally 2 weeks before the 25th December and we do Xmas, the presents, Xmas dinner.
Would this be an option?
If your relationship is good otherwise I'd compromise rather than leaving a sour taste. Besides it would be nicer if she's there 2 weeks before out of choice than on the day not fully committed.
Love and hugs
X

How about you say to your son "please know that there is an open invite to you and DIL every single christmas... if you want to come, alone or as a couple, please let us know ASAP. If you're not coming then we hope you have a lovely time whatever you choose to do as adults and we hope to see you on Boxing Day / New Years Day / whatever".

When I first read this I wondered if it was my MiL posting! I am the DiL who has been with her son for 16 years (no kids) and has never spent Christmas with her. DH and I have only spent two Christmas days together in those 16 years (once he came to my family Christmas and the other time we spent it alone because of Covid) but we live together the other 364 days of the year, and I see my PiL regularly throughout the rest of the year.

I know my in-laws find it strange that I don't spend Christmas with them, but, quite frankly, I just want to spend it with my own family. It's the only time of the year that I go home and stay a few nights in my old childhood home and I absolutely love it. My brother and sister go back as well, and we have all of our own traditions. It just wouldn't be the same going somewhere else for Christmas, and while my parents are still around I just want to spend Christmas with them. Nothing at all against my in-laws!

Of course, if we had kids it would be completely different, but as we don't, I can't see the problem.

I hate Christmas precisely because of all this pressure. My family are quiet introverts, but Christmas is a big deal, it’s Christian, we go to midnight mass, my mother is an incredible cook, so the food is amazing, she is amazing at decorating so the house looks like a Folksy German concoction and presents aren’t really a thing, we make something handmade to gift each other, it’s more about being together, without any monetary gifting stress.

However I can’t attend family Christmas’s as my family live on the other side of the world. Because of this MIL expects us to attend every family Christmas with her.

I can’t bear her Christmas’s. The emphasis is on spending money on gifts as a couple saving for a house we can’t afford (they are well off), they are loud and binge drink, the food is beyond awful, we both hate it and there is no room in the day for us to do any of the things we’d enjoy, say a country walk or a nap when the volume gets too much.

The one Christmas we had alone she threw a massive strop, but oh wow it was the best Christmas we’ve both ever had together. This year we have a baby on the way, and we will use this to break the chain. It will be Christmas’s just our nuclear family from now on, and we can celebrate with them on another day, like Boxing Day.

My mil had her wedding planned by her mil, her Christmass taken over by her mil, her childcare taken over by her mil so she now tells me it’s my turn to make that sacrifice too. But actually it’s not. It was her choice to let her mil dictate her life..

Good for you @MargotChateau! Congrats on the baby news..

I haven’t done Christmas done Christmas at my own parents for 13 years. I don’t get this big deal of wanting turns or whatever.

She celebrates with her whole family some from France, sometimes her dh your son goes with her sometimes he comes to you. If she can only see these French relatives once or twice a year of course she is going to go there. Also maybe she just doesn’t like your Christmas.

She appears to visit and come around near to the “big day” so it’s not like she doesn’t see you over Christmas. Her being with you on Christmas Eve then leaving to see her family later on Christmas Eve still wasn’t good enough for you.

I also wonder how old they are. Those 16 years could be from them being high school sweethearts or they could be in their 40’s together for 16 years as adults.

But either way trying to force someone to come to your must be this day of the year dinner knowing it would mean they couldn’t see family members for months after isn’t nice.

We always took turns with parents at Christmas pre-children. It just seemed to fairest and most reasonable thing to do. Post children we stay at home and see no parents.. I don't think you are being unreasonable OP

Make yourself available on Christmas Day only, every other Christmas.
So this year it would be your “turn”- be available for them on Christmas Day, tell your DS well in advance, say that you’re hoping that DS and DIL will come to you, book your other family in too.
If they don’t want to come, make no effort to arrange an alternative. That’s on them.

You can’t force them to do what you want, but you can stop enabling a situation which makes you unhappy. If this is how they want to do Christmas, they can bear some of the responsibility of organising it, rather than assume that you will do everything you end to accommodate their preference.

This is one of the most deranged things I've ever read on here. You're getting cross about things you've just made up 😂

I think it's unreasonable to expect her not to see her family especially when some come from a different country. Can you have a Christmas celebration another day? My MIL has everyone around on boxing day for a meal and presents.