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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not sure whether to be a sahm or not

1000 replies

Flowerpicker1 · 06/11/2022 20:21

Had 2 under 2. My maternity leave is now coming to an end following the birth of my 2nd dc. Neither dc are in nursery. DH is on a good wage.

Have been given the option not to return to work if I don't want to. Dh can cover us. It would be part not full time anyway.3 days.

Not sure what to do. On one hand I'd love to be there for all of my dcs childhood but on the other I worry if I would cope. We don't have any family or support nearby.

If you work would you rather be a sahm and not put your children in nursery? Or have you done this and loved it/regretted it?

OP posts:
MiniTheMinx · 08/11/2022 22:19

Topgub · 08/11/2022 21:51

Sorry, no. I dont think a sahd is sexist

OFFS

This is now absurd. Why is being a mother full time (without any other identity signifier) sexist then?

It isn't. Its only sexist because the capitalist society post 1970 deems it of no value. Go back to your scathing remarks about Bowlby.

Bowlby was timely.....even I realise that Bowlby's theories were used as justification for convincing women to go back to the kitchen sink post war. Ideology again.....see!

Topgub · 08/11/2022 22:26

@Walkaround

To society?

What value is there to society in you doing your own housework?

There is value to the family but not to society.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 22:27

@MiniTheMinx

Because capitalism values men's work, doesn't it? (I don't remember any scathing remarks about bowlby)

Is communism not an ideology?

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 22:31

But what makes you think that something of value to the family is not of value to society?! Why on earth are you treating the two as entirely separate and distinct? Do you think broken, dysfunctional families are good for society? I doubt it - because all of a sudden then you would recognise the importance of a well functioning family life to a well functioning society.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 22:36

@Walkaround

How is housework relevant to broken families?

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 22:40

Topgub · 08/11/2022 22:36

@Walkaround

How is housework relevant to broken families?

@Topgub So you think a SAHM does nothing but housework?

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 22:42

Topgub · 08/11/2022 22:36

@Walkaround

How is housework relevant to broken families?

@Topgub - and what’s more, you think a family set up that works well for the family concerned has nothing whatsoever to do with the happiness and success of the family?

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 22:46

@Topgub - if you think all the time you spend away from your paid work involves nothing but housework, why do you think you are such a good contributor to society?

Topgub · 08/11/2022 22:46

@Walkaround

No I don't think sahms do only house work and no I don't think a family which is happy has nothing to do with its 'success'

But families with working parents are happy and successful too.

MiniTheMinx · 08/11/2022 23:02

Mmm, good point Topgub. Marx himself didn't even consider himself a philosopher. In his opinion philosophy is about idealism.....thought. The real work was political, about change. Marxism isn't an ideology, its a set of tools or a perspective larger than a single theory, it gives you a meta theory through which you can analyse society very comprehensively from class relations, to women's issues, to globalisation and crisis.

Is the average tory a rabid free market ideologue? Well yes, but the free market is only central to Tory philosophy via enlightenment liberal philosophy. So is defending the free market an ideological enterprise? yes and no. What it is really is a very deep philosophy of ethics which says man is apriori to society and an individual first and foremost. He is equal to all others but only in terms of opportunity. He has the moral right to acquire and protect his property from those with less. Interestingly this liberal philosophy happens to take root with material changes (changes to the mode of production) towards capitalism. Hence why free market monkeyism is an ideology. Marx only countered an existing ideology, not directly, but through seeking to explain how capitalism works. Marxism is not therefore an ideology but a meta theory used to explain how society works.

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 23:04

@Topgub - what has families with working parents being happy and successful too got to do with it? Why this desperate need to invent competition? Not all families with working parents are remotely happy or successful. Not all families with SAHP are remotely happy and successful. Some families with working parents are very happy and successful. Some families with SAHP are very happy and successful.

What lesson do I learn from this? That one size does not fit all. What lesson have you learnt from it? That SAHP don’t contribute anything to any happy, well adjusted families and that only happy families where both parents are paid for their work contribute anything to society?!

Topgub · 08/11/2022 23:09

@MiniTheMinx

Amazing.

@Walkaround

I guess at this point Im going to have to ask why you can't just read what I've said instead of making up what you want in order to fit your narrative?

And really. Why does it matter if I don't value the role of a sahm? If you want to be one then you value it and presumably your oh does to.

What more do you need?

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 23:10

@Topgub - ? Why can’t you read what I’ve said? I’m not a SAHM.

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 23:11

And, @Topgub , I’m not making anything up to suit my narrative, I’m trying to make sense of your argument.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 23:13

@Walkaround I didnt say you were.

I said if you want to be one

You are making stuff up. You keep saying I've said things I havent

Sorry you don't understand what I've said.

I thought it was being pretty clear.

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 23:14

@Topgub - no, I am not making stuff up. You have repeatedly argued that SAHMs do not add any value.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 23:16

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 23:14

@Topgub - no, I am not making stuff up. You have repeatedly argued that SAHMs do not add any value.

OK.

Where did I say this?

That SAHP don’t contribute anything to any happy, well adjusted families and that only happy families where both parents are paid for their work contribute anything to society?!

SoulTrayne · 08/11/2022 23:19

Topgub · 08/11/2022 23:13

@Walkaround I didnt say you were.

I said if you want to be one

You are making stuff up. You keep saying I've said things I havent

Sorry you don't understand what I've said.

I thought it was being pretty clear.

You've repeatedly taken the words of women on here and misrepresented them.

You have repeatedly fabricated comments and claimed that other people have said them.

Seems relevant here.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 23:20

@SoulTrayne

I'm starting to sound like you!

You must be rubbing off on me

SoulTrayne · 08/11/2022 23:27

Topgub · 08/11/2022 23:20

@SoulTrayne

I'm starting to sound like you!

You must be rubbing off on me

There are worse fates 😉

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 23:27

Topgub · 08/11/2022 23:16

OK.

Where did I say this?

That SAHP don’t contribute anything to any happy, well adjusted families and that only happy families where both parents are paid for their work contribute anything to society?!

It’s implicit in everything you say. When I ask why you think SAHMs don’t contribute to society and only to the family, you refer to housework, as though that is all they do - ie that their only contribution in life is a clean home. When I point out they do more than housework and that they do contribute to the success of families, you still argue they don’t add anything of value to society. When I point out that successful, well functioning families are of huge value to society, you just say that working parents are too, as though either of us has ever tried to argue otherwise. You keep shifting position.

MiniTheMinx · 08/11/2022 23:30

Topgub · 08/11/2022 22:27

@MiniTheMinx

Because capitalism values men's work, doesn't it? (I don't remember any scathing remarks about bowlby)

Is communism not an ideology?

Capitalism ONLY values waged work. Not mens work, it's gender neutral in that respect. Capitalism doesn't value unwaged work.

Capitalism values waged work because of the surplus value (profit) created through waged work.

Capitalism doesn't give two hoots who does the waged work.

Capitalism has historically required labour with certain skills or natural attributes such as strength, or later empathy and affective labour skills at different times.

Capitalism creates inequalities wilfully to exploit....ie unwaged domestic work and care is women's work therefore we can either super exploit this type of labour through waged labour ie nursery workers or through super exploitation of value created being unrecognised unpaid within the private sphere.

Capitalism shifted from the fordist, to the post fordist to now neoliberal (the neoliberal subject is feminine) and we see service sector, soft skills, caring work, wellbeing work requiring different skills. This coincides with marketisation of care and child care where capitalism starts to reinvent itself desperately because it can find no other outlets for its profit making.....it encroaches into the private sphere. So now we see women super exploited for waged and unwaged labour working in jobs previously unwaged such as nursery care and domiciliary care only because capitalism can make a profit out of what was previously private life. Its too complicated, but there are other factors as to why women are super exploited under capitalism, and how this works.

But capitalism doesn't see race or sex, it simply creates inequalities based on those characteristics because historically its driven to, its not through conscious design.

Despite a few generations where one wage kept a family, capitalism has never valued unwaged domestic work or childcare. But capitalism has always profited from it.

In order to profit from work that would otherwise be unpaid capitalism must create the conditions where it can encroach into this sphere.....ie more women work, more women pay for child care, we profit from childcare being waged work because we exploit this for profit. We employ women on low wages because its women's work haha haha silly women haha and off to the bank!

1994girl · 08/11/2022 23:36

I have a 4 month old, and will be returning to work after maternity pay. I will not be a scrounger SAHM on benefits.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 23:36

@SoulTrayne

Not so sure about that 1.

@Walkaround

I mentioned housework because you did but I honestly cba going back to look.

I'm sorry my opinion annoys you but it won't change

If some women want to choose to be sahms or even feel compelled to be, they absolutely should.

That is their choice.

But I dont see any benefit of that choice to society over and above any other family set up.

It's just a lifestyle choice like any other. It doesn't need any special recognition or value. In fact it has some detrimental effects on society.

And just to be really clear (again) that has nothing to do with how people are valued.

HTH

Topgub · 08/11/2022 23:37

@MiniTheMinx

Im not a capitalist

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