Not sure whether to be a sahm or not

[Flowerpicker1]

Had 2 under 2. My maternity leave is now coming to an end following the birth of my 2nd dc. Neither dc are in nursery. DH is on a good wage.

Have been given the option not to return to work if I don't want to. Dh can cover us. It would be part not full time anyway.3 days.

Not sure what to do. On one hand I'd love to be there for all of my dcs childhood but on the other I worry if I would cope. We don't have any family or support nearby.

If you work would you rather be a sahm and not put your children in nursery? Or have you done this and loved it/regretted it?

@mantramama

I dont equate value to saving money. I was just pointing out the difference.

In that children have parents looking after them regardless of if they work or not

Some elderly people might have that too

Lots of carers also work.

Families are the basics of society.

But you don't need a sahm to have a family.

And of course you're having this discussion. Its bout the millionth time we've had it.

Family is the very fabric of society, yep. Children are the future, invest in it, as you would your next career move.

I find it very sad that basic human values of empathy, love, kindness and sacrifice to others, even those most precious to us, is now reduced to being of no value. Not just that the value of care is not appreciated in monetary terms (its women's work an all), but that value itself is only seen in monetary or exchange terms.

We see no value in women's work, we see no value in women who don't work for wages, do we also see no value in the poor, sick, vulnerable or those whose disabilities mean they can't work?

@MiniTheMinx

You're missing the point.

I can only assume its deliberate.

Since when were empathy, love, kindness exclusive to sahms?

I dont believe in women's work

@Topgub - If you think a sahm has value because they further mens careers, thats fine. I dont Isn’t this statement seeing a career as something only of value to the person with the career? Or is that only the case if it is the man who has the career, and a woman with a career would be adding value?

What do you think does add value to society? (Or do you think there is no such thing as society?)

You make no sense Topgub.

You say working mums do exactly the same as SAHMs.

But working dads (with SAHWs) are opting out of childcare.

Presumably, if the dad works the same hours and the child is in childcare rather than with their wife, then all is forgiven and they are doing the same as a SAHD?

And you do only see the world in monetary terms, btw. You have an astonishingly tenuous comprehension of human value. Actually, you seem scared of it.

@Walkaround

Lots of things add value to society.

Volunteering. Charity etc.

I see being a sahm as a lifestyle choice.

Like taking a gap year, or ducking out of the rat race to find yourself

Good for that individual but no real measurable benefit to society as a whole.

Because working parents are still raising a family. They're achieving the same over all outcomes as a family with a sahm.

Aren't they?

If not then you're saying that having a sahm is better than working as a parent. Its achieving outcomes working parents can't

If that's your opinion. That's fine but it's not mine

But most working families are paying for childcare if they don't have a SAHM!

And why di you keep talking about children as 'outcomes.' It's not even about outcomes. It's about quality of life in the meantime!

Having poor debating skills and the habit of changing other people's words are two separate things and not mutually exclusive.

You have made women posting here feel undermined and unwilling to post. That's on you. They told you that you are the reason.

Your attempt to blame other women for your actions is entirely in keeping with
your anti-women agenda.

I have an agenda? I posted twice before you claimed that one.

Do better.

Who was it who once said -

"Arguing with an intelligent person is difficult. But arguing with a stupid person is impossible."

Anyway . I'm done. Goodnight valued society members.

mantramama💪

This thread needs some solidarity 🙌

@Topgub - but you agree a family is a unit, don’t you? That men and women should work as a team together? Why is sharing the workload in one family unit differently from the way another family shares it a problem to you if the overall output and contribution to society of each unit is ultimately the same? So what if one is doing all the voluntary work and the other all the paid work, if that works for the unit? Are you not conflating potential power imbalances and value? Do you not see that sometimes imbalances of power are caused not by the reality of a contribution and how it is achieved, but by the prevailing view of what creates value? And why do you limit the SAHM role to, quite literally, staying at home in your mind? Many people who describe themselves as SAHMs are actually not staying at home all the time - many are actually doing quite a lot of outward facing, unpaid work, but society would still describe them as SAHMs, because they are not being paid.

I'm not arguing with anyone about anything - but @Flowerpicker1 I was a SAHM for about 15 years, and they were the best years of my life. I gave up a 'proper' career with a great pension in order to do it. I ended up divorced (the last thing I expected) and unemployable. In fact, I've been fine as ex husband and I had enough assets for me not to need to work, but it would have been difficult if I hadn't had that cushion. I certainly don't have the kind of house or the lifestyle I'd have had if I'd kept my job - everything is now on a shoestring. But I don't regret a single minute of being a SAHM, and it was the right thing for our DC (I think your husband is wrong about nursery, btw). You need to think of what the worst case scenario might be, and then work out whether it's worth it for you. In principle, p/t work is probably the best compromise, but it's not one that I'd have chosen to make.

Ah. The hypocrisy

Solidarity to the poster doing the very things you've accused me of

Soldiraty for the personal attack when no counter point can be found.

Be kind and support your sisters.

As long as they agree with you of course

@mantramama

I havent said sahms and working mums do exactly the same.

Outcomes/quality of life whatever you want to call it.

Do you think your children have a better quality of life than mine because I work and you don't?

Do you think, as adults, you would be able to look at my children, and say, ah. Yes. Their mother worked?

If yes. Thats quite the statement.

If not then we're in agreement.

And also, I'm surprised I'm having yo say this, but people are not roles. No one has value or not for 1 single aspect of their lives.

Everyone has value. It does not depend on their job (well unless they're a hedge fund manager 😆)

It's a shame you've resorted to personal insult again.

@Walkaround

I'm not sure I can be arsed going over it all again but essentially it's the sexism.

It can't be removed from the equation.

Much as folk would like to

When people bang on about everything a sahm is achieving, all the value they are creating and providing they are denigrating working parents.

Like the pp posting about childcare and domestic labour like those things don't exist for working parents

I said this 100 pages ago though and we're still back at sahms don't want to have to hear a pov different to their own.

They want to be able to say that being a sahm is the best way to 'raise' a family and not hear another word about it.

It depends how much you value your career/job and whether you think you'll be able to get back into it after.

I was int eh exact same position but had worked hard at my career and was successful. I didn't want to give that up so worked part time 2.5 days, maintained my career and salary and still have plenty of time with the kids.

That being said, if I wasn't bothered about my job I would have jumped at it. Couple of times I seriously considered being a sahm.

@Topgub - but not all SAHMs are saying theirs is the best way to raise a family. Most are saying it’s the best way to raise their family. That is not inherently sexist, that may very well be true in their case, even by the standards of someone who doesn’t think men and women as a sex, rather than as individuals, are better suited to different roles.

And one individual leading a different life to another is not denigrating the other person’s life simply by having made different life choices.

@Walkaround

No, not all. But I was speaking about the value to society thing

And I do think the role (as a choice, in hetero couple) is inherently sexist.

Because it enforces sex and gender stereotypes

newleftreview.org/issues/ii56/articles/nancy-fraser-feminism-capitalism-and-the-cunning-of-history

For Topgub

I am not blaming women. Interesting read if you follow the link

I'm so pleased you have said this 👍 topgubs approach literally feels like being bullied 💐

@MiniTheMinx

Sorry it wants me to log in.