Is this weird - work related - is it cultural?

[cofingalthetime]

So just to start - I'm Irish.
So I work in a office in a small team. Colleagues has been off for 3 weeks. The first week she was off I asked the team leader was she ok, and she said she it was "personal". So of course I respect people's privacy and didn't want to pry and so I didn't ask anything or mention it again. I was in the office with TL and one other girl yesterday. And I just happened to say to the other girl "I hope X is ok, she has been off for a while" and the girl said did I not know, but X's brother had been murdered! I was so shocked, and upset that I didn't know. I asked her had flowers or a card not been sent -and she said no - that not even our Head knew what happened, that the TL hadn't told anyone, and this girl had heard it from a completely different friend of X's. (X is friends with people outside our dept, she's worked there for years).

I said we should organise at least a card from our team, to let her know we were thinking of her. That we should maybe send flowers... that I'd be happy to chip in if the company didn't want to pay (notoriously stingy).

Team leader came back into the office and we both said it to her and she said 'no no' we are not to organise anything like that. Why not I said? And she just said kept saying 'no no'.

THEN, Team leader said she had been in touch with X and had told her she needs to come back to the office as it's been 3 weeks - X had apparently been doing working from home, and some compassionate leave, and some annual leave. X asked to work from home for the time being (she lives a long way - we are doing 3 days in, 2 days wfh) but team leader said no, she has to come back properly. She even said to X that she will arrange for her to work in this horrible little office we have - that has no windows - and she can work in there on her own if she doesnt want to sit in the office with us???? I was gobsmacked. She said she has told X she needs to get signed off by a doctor or come back asap. Fair enough I know - even though managers are allowed to "use discretion" when it comes to working from home and personal circumstances - this manager likes to follow the rules to the letter. More than that though - why can't we send a card? Is that an "English" thing?? I know in Ireland there's no way nothing would have been done by now. I feel so sorry for X that she has had nothing from her work colleagues at all. I mean, am I wrong or?? Feel so bad. Have bought a card and will send it myself if team leader won't let us send a group one.

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean I'm wrong @Fairislefandango

@mam0918 is a big fan of The Band

I’m Irish too though. One of my colleagues lost their dad not long after I started in my current job. Not only was everyone told via email, the whole office went to the funeral to do a guard of honour (local man).
We were all told about the passing of a colleagues father-in-law too.

Well if the bereaved colleagues were fine with that and were happy for the news to be shared and wanted colleagues to attend the funeral, then of course it's good that they did!

Nobody on this thread is saying it's not ok for bereaved people to share their news and feelings or for colleagues to send cards and flowers or even to attend the funeral if that is what the colleague wants. Whereas for some reason plenty of people on the thread seem to be saying it's not ok to keep it private.

And this girl IS a friend

If she's a friend why don't you just contact her personally, as a friend? I can totally see why she doesn't want the tragedy acknowledged by work colleagues but that doesn't stop you, as her friend, from getting in touch with her privately.

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean I'm wrong @Fairislefandango

If you say so <waves at all my fellow apparent sock puppets>. I'd be intrigued to see if any of the 'sock puppets' who agree with each other on this thread disagree with each other on other MN threads! I'm not saying sock-puppeting doesn't exist, but it's funny how people only ever think people who disagree with them are sock puppets Have you ever spotted any on your side of an argument?

I also would be ashamed and embarrassed, humiliated even. It might be enough to drive me out of my job. The fact that my work colleagues had been talking about me, the fact that my manager broke all guidance on confidentiality and privacy. How awful to have to go back into work after that.

Many years ago, a work colleague’s relation was murdered. The difference was, he told us all himself, said it would be in the papers, there was a court case, and the guy went to jail. We knew all of this - because he told us. We also were personal friends, had been to his house, knew his address and phone number. We sent cards.

Christ alive @cofingalthetime has queried is colleague ok, upon hearing actually no not ok, wanted to send a card to acknowledge the event on a human level. That is a Normal proportionate response. A card and we are thinking of ye. Not a mob at the door demanding to be fed and regaled with the details.

Yanbu OP.
PPs are correct in that nobody is supposed to know why anyone is off work. That's almost impossible in the real world and people invariably fund out one way or another but it leads to this kind of emotional constipation in the workplace. How could you not acknowledge such a tragic life event.

We're not cold just private sometimes we dont want the world knowing our business

my dh was given 3 days comppasionate leave for his mums death had to take the rest of as AL -i know he was murdered but they cant give compassionate leave indefinitely

Thank god I'm not the only person. I find this thread very odd tbh

The only time I’ve ever seen anyone wearing a black veil at an Irish funeral was an English daughter of the deceased (Irish) man who had come home from the funeral.

It did seem odd that there was one woman in a black veil when even the widow did not wear a veil.

I think you should avoid conflating people of Irish decent with first generation Irish people. Funerals in Ireland are not necessarily the same as the funerals of Irish-descended people in the UK.

what if shes told the manager not to tell anyone-then she gets a group card and flowers from you all

You don't HAVE to do it the traditional way. My neighbour didn't want a three day funeral and his wife made it known, so there wasn't one. It was all good, no one felt jipped.

Just tell people you don't want it.

The manager conveys to team I can’t go into specifics but colleague doesn’t want card or flowers
No disclose or explanation necessary. If colleague doesn’t want card etc then yes the manager should tell team her request

I’m not sure this has to be a debate about who’s way is best. Just that this is definitely cultural.

Holiday - fine to talk about/discuss minor things like travel delays
Whole life turned upside down in total tragedy - private, if mentioned, brief condolences offered, don’t make a fuss

If you have a funeral in a church then you can't restrict who goes to the mass but you have total control over who is welcome back to the house/goes to the prearranged meal afterwards.

You don't have to do a removal or wake if you don't want.

Yeah but the OP is throwing a strop because the bereaved coworker wants to grieve according to her own culture.

No that's not correct. She told her close friend in the other office, who is gradually telling everyone.

Just to say this manager has 'form'. When another colleague was diagnosed with breast cancer, the manager wouldn't tell anyone - she said she was extending her maternity leave (she was on mat leave when she got cancer) - and my friend specifically told her she would prefer if SHE (TL) told people so she (my friend) wouldn't have to. 2 weeks later my friend rang me in tears as she was so confused and upset that not a single person from work had been in touch. And I said it was cos TL hadn't told anyone (my friend told me directly). So I said to her I had presumed she told TL not to tell anyone - and she said no, it was the opposite. So I ended up telling people for her.

You do sound quite involved about a death of a colleague’s relative.

in most countries in the world you’d be tactful and let work let you know what they are planning on doing and for data protection/HR/GDPR reasons then of course your work won’t divulge why or how etc the brother died especially as it’s a murder and there will be a police investigation.

As soon as you’re given the green light by your work then of course you can send a card etc but otherwise butt out and it’s not cultural.

I’m not British but I agree with this too. I would also hate it if, for example, one of my parents died and my office colleagues and everyone from my primary school class showed up to the funeral. I wouldn’t mind people knowing about it, I’m not particularly private, but a funeral for me is such a raw and difficult situation as it is, I wouldn’t appreciate people there who did not even know my parent.

@Fairislefandango I'm not arguing with anyone just observing what's happening

I'm a bit shocked by the consensus here - just goes to show how different people are.

My DM died when I was in my 20s. Most people in my office knew - as I got the "get home asap" call when I was in there and needed to sort out a few things in the few mins before I legged it. Aside from my two colleagues who I was livng with at the time (and one other who us niw my husband!), no-one mentioned anything, let alone a card.

I was gutted - these were people I thought I was pretty friendly with and I found it really upsetting no-one expressed any sympathies or asked how I was. It made me feel like shit about people I had considered mates, and also made me feel really isolated when I was back at work - like I couldn't mention it when I had a bad day. Honestly I've never really moved passed it, it really set me in the mindset of people who appear friendly aren't actually friends at all.

Whilst I wouldn't necessarily send a group card, and I have and will continue to send bereaved people a direct email/card/call if it's someone I consider myself close to. I'd hate for someone to feel how I felt.

This is partly why my stepdad (Irish) doesn’t want a funeral and just wants to leave his body to medical science.

That's the thing though. Her close friend is telling people. And given this TL's form, I wouldnt presume to think she has been asked not to say anything.