Anyone else’s nursery pulling this stunt at the moment?

[Skinnermarink]

Let me preface this by saying I KNOW nursery work is hard and it’s long and it’s woefully underpaid. It was a long time ago but I’ve worked in one myself. I can totally see why there’s a recruitment crisis with it at the moment.

DS is one and we thought we’d found a good nursery. Long established, nice staff etc. I wasn’t keen on sending him at all because I wanted him at home with me but it’s not financially viable. So four days a week he goes, at a cost of £1100 a month.

The amount of calls we’ve had to go and collect him over something or other have ramped up in the past eight weeks to the point of ridiculousness. They include

-a temperature that we never managed to catch at home and he was completely well. That happed 3x
upset stomach that magically we never saw at home, but came with a 48 hour exclusion. This went on for weeks. At worst he had a few soft nappies, certainly nothing anyone could describe as diarrhoea. I eventually got a stool sample to clear him for this at their insistence before they’d have him back. He missed days and days of nursery for this.

Teething pain which meant he was ‘not himself’ (I didn’t collect for this, as he was playing, eating and drinking, and I told them I wasn’t going to collect for something as flimsy as this and they were welcome to give calpol)

a head injury that we had to come immediately for or they’d call an ambulance, threw myself into a taxi in sheer panic to find him running around with a tiny bump on his head, but they wanted me to take him home to be checked out and not return him for 24 hours. I’m not under reacting by the way, it really was in no way anything other than a typical toddler bump.

This week has been the final straw. He had his MMR vaccine last week and developed a few tiny spots- a side effect listed on the NHS website. They called and said we had to collect and he couldn’t return today unless a doctor cleared the ‘rash’.

Luckily our GP is fab and had him in this morning, cleared him in seconds with a note so I took him straight to nursery because I had to get to work. There were already 9 babies in the room, mine would take it to ten. 3 members of staff. They looked pissed off and a bit panicked and said he couldn’t come in unless I had a doctor’s clearance - which I produced. The manager was called down who said they had staff sickness but she would be covering herself until an agency worker arrived.

I felt shit leaving him to be honest but it’s no exaggeration to say our jobs have been on the line due to dropping things to pick him up, staying off with him at short notice etc. we’ve used practically all remaining annual leave we had for Christmas so that’s scuppered plans to visit family. We don’t have any outside help, it’s just us, no grandparents to call in an emergency etc.

So I want to know has anyone else been in this situation? I’m not being paranoid (although I did tell myself I was at first) and I honestly think they have to pick babies to send home to stay within the ratios and then hope they stay off the next day.

I’ll add that DS has been genuinely unwell with things on occasion and of course we’ve kept him off. But we are at our absolute limit now and have pissed hundreds up the wall on unnecessary pick ups and days off.

Think I have found an alternative setting and are looking on Monday, but they have no availability until January.

That’s a bit short sighted don’t you think? ‘Should’ doesn’t come into it. Many households cannot survive on one income.

I don’t subscribe to the idea that you should keep a baby cosseted away from life either, that’s very outdated thinking and not practical for the vast majority. Do you assume all babies don’t have an older a sibling that will bring germs into the home from their nursery or school?

I despair at the lack of critical thinking from certain posters, honestly.

If the nursery thinks that it's too terribly risky to have a one year old in their den of germs then they should probably stop accepting OP's money to look after her one year old, shouldn't they?

Yeah, and all the others in the baby room 😂

Utter nonsense . Unless a child is immunosuppressed there is no need to restrict contacts
There is no research or physiological basis to restriction upon nursery commencement nursery age
In fact attending nursery, build immunity through exposure to viruses it builds immunity and increases exposure to microbial diversity

I’m fascinated by this, when I chose my CM I had lots of questions and may have seemed a bit OTT about outings etc but in reality I’m quite chilled.

How can child carers tell which will be nightmare parents from a few interactions?

Yeah we had that years ago with the first one we sent DD to. They literally couldn't settle as they would ring up over nothing.
I also didn't have an understanding GP who on the latest bullshit reason told me I would be charged for a fit note.
I'm talking that she wouldn't settle as they felt she "must be ill", it was more that she wasn't used to being at the setting as she had just returned after a period off at their insistence which coincided with the usual 3 days off.

I went to a nursery managed by a woman near on old enough to be my gran, aided by similar older ladies. All of them were sensible, capable and knew what was and wasn't an emergency. I even sent DS there who has complex needs, they took it in their stride.

@Tillsforthrills

I think it’s a case of weeding their kids out whilst they already have a place. Like you said it would be difficult to judge that on first interactions. I know if the child is incredibly dysregulated during a settling in session my cousin will suddenly have a full nursery on certain days and make it difficult. Not saying I agree with it, just relaying what she does for the purpose of this thread.

In my case it was the childminder who was a pain for this. Nursery was fine. And they gave calpol if needed after a phonecall to me. A bit of paperwork to sign on collection so was all offical.

Good ideas, lovelycuppa!!

Mongoose, that’s complete bollocks. There is nothing in the scientific literature supporting what you say - in fact a lot of it indicates the opposite.

Correct
exposure to viruses at nursery actually build immunity.
reseach indicates outside activities and microbial diversity build immunity also

Question for you @Skinnermarink are you getting any form of nursery funded hours or are you paying privately? You need to contact your local authority if that’s the case. I work for our local authority and used to work In the early years funding team. On occasion we’d get calls from parents with similar issues and if these were funded places and not private, the nursery would need to offer parents other days wherever possible, taking to account staff availability and ratios. You need to make sure you read your parental agreements/contracts. It sounds like another childcare provider could be the answer.

I mean, it does seem unfair but juggling a lot of children I imagine one being very difficult could really upset the balance and take away attention from other children that need it. I feel for the parents though.

I'd be tempted to notify Ofsted outlining exactly what you said in original post. If they are struggling with ratios, it's a safeguarding issue.
In the meantime, hopefully you can find somewhere more reliable x

I wasn’t so much judging as despairing sometimes.
I remember a parent looking round with a very very tall four year old who was in nappies. The child was very hyper as in climbing on tables in the first moments of being in the room and doing parkour around the room. Easily and fast, because he was so tall.
His father described him as a ‘free spirit’ without a flicker of irony and said that he ‘doesn’t like being told what to do’. He went on to say that the child didn’t like having his nappy changed. We said that if a child is wet or soiled we have to change them. Or toilet train. The parent shrugged at us.
We weren’t terribly disappointed that we didn’t have the days they wanted.

which is why 2 in the minimum age you should sending a child to nursery.

So is it only nursery 1 year olds aren’t allowed at? Or are they banned from baby classes, playgroups, stay and plays too? 🙄

The issue is too that in many nurseries you have kids who clearly have SEN but they’ll be counted in normal ratios. A non verbal preschooler with very challenging behaviours needs one to one, and you’re expected to give that while also educating, and caring for (to a reasonable level) seven other children, who will all have their own needs. And what happens is every member of staff ends up frazzled and stressed, children end up getting hurt, you end up losing staff. It’s a nightmare.

Also, if you get the reputation of being good with children with additional needs, more and more arrive, making it impossible to care properly for any of them.

i imagine, and would be interested in those who have worked in nurseries opinions, but that the late diagnoses children in the UK get really doesn’t help.

I no longer work in a nursery. I miss the children but not the hours on the rasping nylon carpet, the paperwork, the colleague determined not to do any work, the crushing responsibility, the minute pay that we often didn’t get (‘Oh I completely forgot it was the end of the month, I’ll do the pay on Monday!’)

Yes, we don’t have to be the Ed Psych to see that a child’s behaviour or development is not within the normal range. Getting any help is practically impossible except for a tiny bit of speech therapy.

OP, have you asked them for evidence on paper/digitally of the illness?

When we send a child home we write an accident form (just a name, covers more than accidents) with an accompanying photo where appropriate e.g. photo of thermometer with reading+time stamp, rash etc. We also have policies in place to monitor before phoning parents, we do 3 temp readings 15 mins apart before calling if it's above 37.7. it might be worth asking for copies of further evidence next time they want to send him home, and copies of their policies and procedures surrounding illness. We would never send a child home due to ratios but I work in a chain where we can usually find staff from elsewhere or we work a few over depending on the age/needs. Worst comes to worst management/admin cover until things are sorted and we don't take lunch breaks and stay on after shifts. Usually we get the raw end of the deal with staffing issues and do our best to make sure care is not compromised. Might be different elsewhere but just thought I'd offer a different perspective 🤷🏻‍♀️

Switch now. We had this happen, complained (saying it was happening the same day every week) then they started being akward then essentially they threw us out.
For your own peace of mind, please swap setting.

I definitely agree with this. In our situation, they had a completely unexpected Ofsted visit, which usually indicates Ofsted has received complaints. The nursery then got Unsatisfactory for various reasons, pretty much all linked to understaffing. I also raised a complaint with Ofsted after DD left as I received her learning record and no observations or even basic notes had been done at all for several months. I'm sure that was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what was going on.

@Redladybirdbaglady we used to take between 8-12 records home and write them up over the weekend. For no pay. It was impossible to do in working hours.

Agree with those saying move and complain. Try and get some money back if you can. It's basically theft taking money for a service and not providing it.