Anyone else’s nursery pulling this stunt at the moment?

[Skinnermarink]

Let me preface this by saying I KNOW nursery work is hard and it’s long and it’s woefully underpaid. It was a long time ago but I’ve worked in one myself. I can totally see why there’s a recruitment crisis with it at the moment.

DS is one and we thought we’d found a good nursery. Long established, nice staff etc. I wasn’t keen on sending him at all because I wanted him at home with me but it’s not financially viable. So four days a week he goes, at a cost of £1100 a month.

The amount of calls we’ve had to go and collect him over something or other have ramped up in the past eight weeks to the point of ridiculousness. They include

-a temperature that we never managed to catch at home and he was completely well. That happed 3x
upset stomach that magically we never saw at home, but came with a 48 hour exclusion. This went on for weeks. At worst he had a few soft nappies, certainly nothing anyone could describe as diarrhoea. I eventually got a stool sample to clear him for this at their insistence before they’d have him back. He missed days and days of nursery for this.

Teething pain which meant he was ‘not himself’ (I didn’t collect for this, as he was playing, eating and drinking, and I told them I wasn’t going to collect for something as flimsy as this and they were welcome to give calpol)

a head injury that we had to come immediately for or they’d call an ambulance, threw myself into a taxi in sheer panic to find him running around with a tiny bump on his head, but they wanted me to take him home to be checked out and not return him for 24 hours. I’m not under reacting by the way, it really was in no way anything other than a typical toddler bump.

This week has been the final straw. He had his MMR vaccine last week and developed a few tiny spots- a side effect listed on the NHS website. They called and said we had to collect and he couldn’t return today unless a doctor cleared the ‘rash’.

Luckily our GP is fab and had him in this morning, cleared him in seconds with a note so I took him straight to nursery because I had to get to work. There were already 9 babies in the room, mine would take it to ten. 3 members of staff. They looked pissed off and a bit panicked and said he couldn’t come in unless I had a doctor’s clearance - which I produced. The manager was called down who said they had staff sickness but she would be covering herself until an agency worker arrived.

I felt shit leaving him to be honest but it’s no exaggeration to say our jobs have been on the line due to dropping things to pick him up, staying off with him at short notice etc. we’ve used practically all remaining annual leave we had for Christmas so that’s scuppered plans to visit family. We don’t have any outside help, it’s just us, no grandparents to call in an emergency etc.

So I want to know has anyone else been in this situation? I’m not being paranoid (although I did tell myself I was at first) and I honestly think they have to pick babies to send home to stay within the ratios and then hope they stay off the next day.

I’ll add that DS has been genuinely unwell with things on occasion and of course we’ve kept him off. But we are at our absolute limit now and have pissed hundreds up the wall on unnecessary pick ups and days off.

Think I have found an alternative setting and are looking on Monday, but they have no availability until January.

I work in a nursery, we do offer calpol for temperatures but advise child goes home if it doesn't come down after half hour or ASAP if its alongside a cough etc (covid) bad bumps, we ring parents and send photos but don't send home (unless obviously it was really bad but touch wood never had that) as for sickness, if a child is sick, they're sent home and 3 loose nappies they're sent home (talking loose, not mushy etc though)
From what you've said, I'd be looking at a new nursery.

Does what is regarded as a temperature vary between nurseries I wonder. Ours reported at one point DS’s was only 37.9!

Thankfully our nursery days are behind us. But I never experienced your level of being sent home with either child. That would have been unmanageable. I would certainly look at other settings. I would definitely recommend looking for a school based preschool with wrap around care for when you can use one. Dd2 absolutely loved it and so much better than nursery once she was 4.

Anything over 37.5 is considered a temperature.

I would take her temperature just before getting there and it was fine. They would take it at the door at it was elevated.

So so frustrating

I had a cal to collect my son as he had had a bleeding nose. I left work as soon as possible thinking there was something wrong with him. They had left a message on my phone because I was in a meeting at work when the called. As soon as I read it, I left. Got to nursery to find out that they had also called his dad. So both of us had a day off work with a perfectly fine toddler lol. I’ve also been getting calls over the last couple of months to collect him as he is snotty. I think it’s because they have so little staff to be honest

I have no idea what even prompted them to take his temperature, since they fully admitted he’d been his normal self all day and eating and playing as normal.

Anyway, we are going to view the other setting tomorrow morning, she is a childminder but runs it like a little nursery with an assistant etc. Really really hoping everything works out with this as I have no idea what else we will do.

Thanks so much for all the solidarity and great advice.

We’ve had to take a tougher stance on illness because parents were bringing in unwell children dosed with calpol before arrival and then obviously becoming poorly with high temps late morning. By which point their peers and staff have also caught it, meaning staff
shortages and more parents needing to have time off for poorly children. This is why many nurseries ask for no calpol before arrival. We will give calpol for ongoing illness which is being treated - ie ear infection that now has antibiotics - or to help with teething if we know they are otherwise well.
If a child is obviously unwell, high temp and crying and clingy then they are better off quiet at home
in their own bed. We haven’t got the time to sit and cuddle one baby all day with a room of others that need care and some illnesses do need quick action, especially once temps hit 39C.
Loose nappies - many young babies have soft nappies and we would only send home for ones that were watery and obviously different to usual.
We wouldn’t send home for most bumps and injuries unless we felt it needed immediate medical treatment.
We always try to cover ratios in house and our manager is usually available if someone is off, the staffing is based on expected children with manager and admin available for cover so we would never send children home for this reason.

Nursery practitioner here! The rule of thumb is generally between 36-38 is a normal temperature, however we always keep am extra eye on the children coming up at 37.5-38, they're either right on the cusp of a bug or just not quite right, however I wouldn't normally phone for an under 38 degree temp unless the child is distressed and totally not themselves. I wonder if you could ask for their policy on illness and exclusions? The general rule for loose nappies is 3 also, one could be an anomaly, as you say, too much fruit for breakfast or something!

I will say that everywhere is short staffed in childcare, and once a staff member is off it's a complete scramble to try and either get cover or cancel places, but they should be absolutely transparent about the fact that they're unable to staff the room appropriately and offer session swaps or refunds if the swap isn't a viable option. This is generally the last resort though, we definitely don't want to be putting anyone out by making them miss work either!

We had a childminder who would always try to get out of looking after the kids. It affected my job and livelihood. She would also go on holiday and come back ill (migraine etc) all the time. With my younger DS I decided to switch to nursery who never let us down and it was the best thing I ever did. You have to find the right place. Wishing you all the best!
Do not feel bad about moving your child out. You need somewhere with common sense and staffing.

Sounds like they can't cope because they don't have enough staff. It may well shut soon so best to find somewhere else before it does.

@Skinnermarink One thing to do when looking around is to ask for the policies they follow with different illnesses. It should be the information from Public Health. Of course, they can choose to do what they want to a degree so look at the contract carefully

Sounds like they were having you on.
I'd email the nursery and gently threaten to pull your son out of there if the situation doesnt improve. Say you are at risk of losing your job as your boss is p*ssed off big time with you constantly leaving him/her in the lurch.
They'll have to pick another baby to be the easy target

@KlouDby childminders are self-employed so if they are sick they don't get paid.

Consumer contracts which include nursery contracts have to be fair.

Which is why the nursery are pulling stuns like this on the OP as it is hard to argue a child, particularly one that isn't particularly verbal, isn't sick.

this means that the fees for 3 children (3300 per month) needs to cover: salary of 1 staff member

It’s even worse than that. Due to sick days, holiday time, breaks, etc. it really needs to cover about 1.5 people. Now bear in mind that the state doesn’t pay anything like the private rates you are and the system is on its knees. To be honest if any group had a chance of improving their lot by striking it would be nursery workers!

@Skinnermarink good luck with the new CM . Make sure you pick a fierce stern harridan who’ll ignore your child. Someone who’ll never phone or disturb you at work because they have no interest,zero, in your child. Pick a cold draughty home, none of your centrally heated nonsense. Oh and is the assistant a big barky dog?

🤣 the house is opposite the pub so that’ll be handy on a Friday.

DS nursery very similar to this, hes a fussy eater, suffers from viral baby wheeze which we are almost certain will be asthma once he's old enough to be properly diagnose, so he's kind of an easy target.
Don't get me wrong a few have been genuine or days where we thought he was fine but got worse while there.

One time he had had a few days off to he observed for his wheeze at hospital, sent him back in when he could go and we hadn't even got home and they called us asking to get him because he wouldn't settle...now we are talking less than a 10 minute drive here, and a two year old who does have his clingy days!

Another time we had a little flea outbreak with the pets, pretty certain they were in a carpet of our house as we hadn't long been living here and DS is like me where if something can bite you it will, and so he had at absolute maximum 6 bites over his entire body, we got a call saying he was covered all over in spots and we had to get him in case of chicken pox! I knew they meant the bites but obviously you can't be sure with kids they come on fast but got there and he had the same amount he had when I took him in, but we had to get them checked out before he could go back!
We've had calls for high temp which yes he was warm but he was burnt out and exhausted from running around like a loon for 9 hours!

We've even had days where they try to deny he's down for the day and were like we can take him because we had a cancellation! Even though I have an invoice showing what days I paid for as I pay a month in advance!

I get that you have to have rules, guidelines etc and I would always rather be safe than sorry but I feel like sometimes it's a bit much and that they think you don't know your own child, a lot of the nursery workers have no children which doesn't mean they can't care for anyone's child of course but there so much difference between a textbook child and an actual one and each one is different! The same as DS is different to how all the baby books said he would be that I read while I was pregnant!

It's got to be a give and take between parents and the nursery staff and ours have improved a little like they don't call for not eating now, they offer him a basic alternative like toast etc which he will eat, they used to worry because he wouldn't nap but don't now as they learnt he doesn't at nursery unless he actually is feeling unwell!

So parents who look like a nightmare are sifted out?! Wow.

Mind you, judging from some comments I see from parents on these threads I can’t really blame them.

However if a child is high maintenance and they feel the setting (other children, staff) is suffering then they should just be honest with the parents.

So parents who look like a nightmare are sifted out?! Wow

Makes absolute business sense to me. No different to an employer choosing the best candidate to fit their business.

@HowzAboutIt

Yup, private nurseries do get to pick and choose (although not on paper). My cousin will try and avoid too many 3 year olds with SEN and also parents that look like they’re going to be a nightmare. It’s how she retains her staff.

I agree. Children shouldn't need Calpol unless they have a high enough temperature that might otherwise lead to febrile convulsions. They certainly wouldn't be well enough to be out in that case.
It's sad to hear of poorly kids being low in everyone's priorities. Maybe the other parent needs to step up more often and give them the reassurance and care they need at these times.
Society expects parents to be 100% available during working hours and that's not good enough.

Do you only use paracetamol yourself when you have a dangerously high fever? I give my children pain relief when I think they'd benefit from it and it will make them feel more comfortable, which isn't always the same thing as being too ill to function, just as I take it myself under those circumstances. Our nursery tends to give us a call and say they're a bit under the weather and ask if we want them to give calpol and then call back in an hour and I'm very grateful for this pragmatic and sensible approach.

They are clearly understaffed. Find somewhere else. My LO was kept in tha baby room way after he should have been sent to the toddler room. They admitted it was a staff ratio problem and only after I threatened to leave did they sort it out. His speech improved immediately.

They are quite correct in playing it safe. One is a dangerous age to leave a baby in a nursery, they don't have a developed immune system and are exposed to all kinds of viruses and bacteria their immune system won't be able to cope with, which is why 2 in the minimum age you should sending a child to nursery.