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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be annoyed at DD’s punishment

455 replies

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 04/11/2022 11:46

DD (9, Y5) has been getting picked on by a girl for a couple of years now. It seems to happen in peaks and troughs. But this girl’s focus is on DD’s height. She’s very small for her age, as is her dad. If you looked at her you’d think she was 7yo max. Her 5yo brother is only 2 inches shorter, and some of her friends are head and shoulders taller. And the girl picking on her constantly calls her titch, shorty, dwarf, shortarse and constantly pats her on the head like she’s a dog. If something has been said in class when they’re learning, for example the teacher describes a ‘small mountain’ this girl will shout out “Just like Emily” (meaning my DD, not her real name).

I raised it last year but she had a bit of a hippy teacher in his last year of teaching who said things like “I’ll work on empowering Emily” and “I’ll do a lesson on how name calling isn’t ok” - which is all very well but FFS just tell this girl to stop it!!!

I raised it with the head who is as much use as a chocolate fireguard and just says “Oh well these things happen and we do encourage resilience”. Which I agree with but one child can only take so much.

To avoid drip feeding - this is a private school with very low numbers and the bully girl is one of 5 siblings. I’ve strongly suspected they don’t want to upset the family in case they pull all their kids out. It seems to be a pattern with wealthy/large families, whereas I only have 2 in school.

Anyway I spoke to her new teacher in the first day of term and said it absolutely cannot happen this year as DD is starting to dread school and has come home crying too often, and I don’t wanna have to pull her out. New teacher is much more of a ball buster than last year’s teacher and said she’d directly pull any name calling or mean behaviour. And all seemed to go well this term (except for the odd incident). Until today.

DD’s teacher called me to say that all her break times will be removed next week and she will have to stay indoors. Apparently the bully girl made a comment when DD was asked to pin something she’s done on a display the wall. She said “Someone get Emily a stepladder”.

DD replied and said “I may be short but at least I’m not fat.” The girl in question is quite overweight. She burst into tears and DD has had that punishment.

Now I’m not condoning what DD said, I’ve always said we never talk about how people look because look how awful it makes someone feel. But after 2 years of grief from this girl when there’s been NO action taken against her, my DD seemingly has snapped and now is being punished for 1 offence. The bully girl was made to apologise but isn’t getting the same punishment.

Full disclosure: DH has suggested before that DD say this to the girl (to which I promptly said FGS NO don’t say that!). But bear in mind we had her coming home upset and crying yet again by this nasty girl who just won’t fucking stop.DH got fed up and said that if she can comment on DD’s height the only way to stop it is to bite back equally as hard. Which I don’t agree with - but I bet that’s why DD’s said it.

WIBU to see the Head and say this is unfair, yes DD should be punished but why hasn’t the other girl ever had a punishment once? Why is fat shaming terrible but height shaming ok and should be tolerated? Neither can be helped of children. I did tell her teacher I’m not happy but she seemed to think it was much more unacceptable what DD said than what the other girl said!

OP posts:
RandomMess · 28/11/2022 20:30
Flowers

Glad you have given notice.

Once you get a place at a new school that you want just leave, you have to pay either way but not a day longer than they have to be.

If you don't work hell just send them in for the party days.

Faith77 · 28/11/2022 20:46

Holy moly! How much notice do you have to serve at Hell Hole Prep?! Given it is a safeguarding issue, I would probably be pulling them out with immediate effect and telling them to shove their notice period!

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 28/11/2022 21:12

Faith77 · 28/11/2022 20:46

Holy moly! How much notice do you have to serve at Hell Hole Prep?! Given it is a safeguarding issue, I would probably be pulling them out with immediate effect and telling them to shove their notice period!

A term - so have to pay til Easter 🙄 Bur they have places on the local state school from after February half term when another family is leaving so I’m sending them then

OP posts:
Mumsanetta · 28/11/2022 21:36

Crikey, well done OP! I bet your DD thinks you’re a rock star!! What did the school say??

I was bullied every single day of high school (and have the therapy bill to prove it) so it’s lovely to hear that you have taken this so seriously.

OliveWah · 28/11/2022 21:46

I don't know much about private schools OP, so apologies if this is way off base, but surely if the school are failing to safe guard your child, then they aren't holding up their side of the contract, so you should be able to take her out without having to pay the notice period? Either way, I'm really happy for you that you've taken the decision, I hope your DC will soon be settled in their new school.

Jebatronic · 28/11/2022 21:46

Op is spot on - with many Private schools there are always a group of the less we’ll to do families who are there just making up the budget and effectively subsidising the more influential families for an education and school experience that isn’t available to them. That influence can be money, contacts, number of children or a show case talent. It is where there is the least equality for children despite the noise made about fairness.
Well done Op - your girl knows where your priorities lie and that is priceless for any child.

RobertJohnsonsShoes · 28/11/2022 22:00

I'd be congratulating DD on her witty response. You can't always kill people with kindness. Sometimes it does need to be a stern 'fuck off fatty'

Tigerstotty · 29/11/2022 05:42

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 28/11/2022 20:22

UPDATE

I gave notice today to the kids’ school. DS is sad and convinced he won’t make anymore friends but he’s 5 and super outgoing so will be absolutely fine.

DD is thrilled - she said since that incident in my OP that she wants to leave. The name calling and exclusions continued and the school has done fuck all. This “kindness session” hasn’t happened as her teacher is too busy. In my son’s class, a TA barked at him to ‘pick up his crap’ because he was slow to clear things away. I complained, as she’s a total cow of a human being and my DD also had issues with her when she was an infant, and I think that’s a terrible way to speak to a 5yo. Headteacher did his Father Stone impression again and said “Oh dear. I’ll speak to Miss Mitchell”.

So I served their notice. I cannot wait to get out of that school. I mean DD may be bullied in another school but at least I won’t be paying for the privilege and I can’t imagine teachers worse than where she is now.

On the bright side, they had an ISI inspection last week and they surveyed all parents! To say I went to town on the would be an understatement. They put out a self congratulatory email about how they got 97% satisfactory scores in safeguarding question but NOTHING about the bullying section

i can honestly say that I have a PSA announcement for MN:

Private schools are not all they’re cracked up to be
IME, bullying is ignored if in a rich or large family or if there is a fear that the bully might be pulled out
Teachers are there because they get discount, and funnily enough the head boy, head girl and anyone with any responsibility or standing (including leads in plays) are children of staff. They give very few shots about your kids.
because so many private schools are undersubscribed they’ll take any child whose parents can pay meaning 1 child can suddenly come in and be disruptive as hell and other kids have to tolerate it.
TeChers also seem to make friends with parents (usually because their kids are all school friends) and you will see teachers on nights out with parents getting absolutely arseholed and no one finds that inappropriate

The only upside was that they don’t ever mind them being taken out during term time and no fines. That’s literally the only thing that sets them apart from your average state school.

<and breath>

☝THIS, THIS & ABSOLUTELY THIS!!!

Please take notice anyone who is remotely thinking about private education for your DC.

Well done OP - You will never regret your decision 👏 👍

XelaM · 29/11/2022 09:27

WELL DONE OP!! 👏🏼 BRAVO!!

Leave them a google review as well. I would also name and shame the school on here (maybe after your kids leave).

StressedOutMumBex · 29/11/2022 10:07

Tigerstotty · 29/11/2022 05:42

☝THIS, THIS & ABSOLUTELY THIS!!!

Please take notice anyone who is remotely thinking about private education for your DC.

Well done OP - You will never regret your decision 👏 👍

I'm glad this is now sorted - what an awful school and expereince. Just for the record, I have to say that both my kids went to private primary school (Prep school) and there was one incident of bullying over the 7 years my son was there which was dealt with swiftly and stopped in its tracks. I think you have had a terrible experience but not all private schools are the same and the post above is a bit of a generalisation. Both my kids absolutely loved their primary school and if i had to do it over I would do the same thing again. Class sizes, pastoral care (when it's a good school obviously) facilities (sports fields, swimming pools) and opportunities for extra curricular activities including travel for the children in private schools is generally better than in state schools. I now have 1 child at a state secondary and 1 at a private school for secondary education, dictated by their needs. Both schools are actually very good. I think it does depend on what your child needs are and what the schools are like in your area, frankly, there are some state schools that are brilliant and some that are awful and its the same with private schools and it's a bit of a postcode lottery where state schools are concerned. I agree with other posters that in your shoes, I would not pay their notice, it should be waived as they have failed to resolve this issue causing you to move your children. I hope your children enjoy their new school OP, best of luck.

Jyn · 29/11/2022 10:41

I’m so pleased OP.
you’re right, money talks, but not just in private schools.
i removed DD from her Catholic primary in similar circumstances, one disruptive, bullying child who, despite endless complaints, was never dealt with.

one morning I went into the school office to request yet another meeting over the situation, in front of me was bully’s Dad handing a sizeable wad of cash to the school secretary for the ‘school fundI’.

I got my meeting, told them I wasn’t taking her out and she started a very small CofE a few miles away the following week.

Best move we ever made.

lieselotte · 29/11/2022 10:48

Faith77 · 28/11/2022 20:46

Holy moly! How much notice do you have to serve at Hell Hole Prep?! Given it is a safeguarding issue, I would probably be pulling them out with immediate effect and telling them to shove their notice period!

Me too. I'd say they had breached their terms and conditions and if they wanted to discuss their lack of safeguarding and compliance with their anti-bullying policies in court, I'd be happy to let them take action for non-payment and would vigorously defend their claim for the term's fees. I really wouldn't pay. I doubt they will come after you for them.

Tigerstotty · 29/11/2022 19:19

StressedOutMumBex · 29/11/2022 10:07

I'm glad this is now sorted - what an awful school and expereince. Just for the record, I have to say that both my kids went to private primary school (Prep school) and there was one incident of bullying over the 7 years my son was there which was dealt with swiftly and stopped in its tracks. I think you have had a terrible experience but not all private schools are the same and the post above is a bit of a generalisation. Both my kids absolutely loved their primary school and if i had to do it over I would do the same thing again. Class sizes, pastoral care (when it's a good school obviously) facilities (sports fields, swimming pools) and opportunities for extra curricular activities including travel for the children in private schools is generally better than in state schools. I now have 1 child at a state secondary and 1 at a private school for secondary education, dictated by their needs. Both schools are actually very good. I think it does depend on what your child needs are and what the schools are like in your area, frankly, there are some state schools that are brilliant and some that are awful and its the same with private schools and it's a bit of a postcode lottery where state schools are concerned. I agree with other posters that in your shoes, I would not pay their notice, it should be waived as they have failed to resolve this issue causing you to move your children. I hope your children enjoy their new school OP, best of luck.

Err.... I've worked in 2 private schools and bullying is endemic. I couldn't keep count of the children who were taken out by their parents (mine included from one of them) because of weak SLT who were too afraid of rich overbearing parents to deal with it! The only time they may act is if it is race or sexual orientation related. Class sizes were large in both (minmum 24) one school had 2 classes per year group and one school had 3 classes per year group, pastoral care was non existent as the OP found out. Facilities were good though as were trips and extra curricular activities but hey, £18000+ per year will buy you all that and more without your children being abused at will day in day out. Maybe your children were good at sport or music or acting and didn't look different in anyway because, in my experience, if they weren't good at sport or they were 'different ' in any way, God help them!. I'd be interested to know if you've ever worked in a private school and know the inner workings - what gets said in meetings and the staff room, how staff talk about 'problem parents' causing them extra work and what 'we' need to do to 'smooth " it over! The only thing that is actually important to them is money! I beg to differ that private school education is generally better as, if you can actually get private schools to publish their results tables, are no better than state schools. Judging by the numerous comments on this thread and other threads, bullying in private schools is a disease that will never be tackled properly through fear of losing children and children equal money and losing money means closure. I'm positive that the OP's children will love their new 'state' education as, other than the bullying, there will be no difference.

XelaM · 29/11/2022 20:42

@Tigerstotty You talk as if there is no bullying in state schools! There is and sometimes more because it's almost impossible to exclude the bully

Tigerstotty · 29/11/2022 20:57

XelaM · 29/11/2022 20:42

@Tigerstotty You talk as if there is no bullying in state schools! There is and sometimes more because it's almost impossible to exclude the bully

No, but it gets addressed and dealt with as the Head & SLT are not 'hand tied ' or scared of parents or losing money in state schools. I've worked in both - private schools are much, much worse.

baffledcoconut · 29/11/2022 21:00

Im fairly sure that you won’t need to pay the remaining fees after they leave as they haven’t dealt with the issue properly. Also many sure your get your deposit back. Definitely worth consulting some legal advice.

WhoKnows2346 · 30/11/2022 09:21

I second the not needing to pay for next term fees. They are in breach of contract. You have enough incidents that you brought to their attention, that they failed to follow through. I would be inclined to turn round and tell them that they're lucky you're not asking for a refund for some of this term. Seriously, put it all in a letter detailing each incident and see if they send an invoice for you to pay.
My friend's little girl was bullied at a prep school and they suggested she have counselling to toughen up. She removed all 3 of her children.
And for the 'fuck off fatty' comment - I think your daughter rocks xx

StressedOutMumBex · 30/11/2022 09:41

Tigerstotty · 29/11/2022 20:57

No, but it gets addressed and dealt with as the Head & SLT are not 'hand tied ' or scared of parents or losing money in state schools. I've worked in both - private schools are much, much worse.

Actually it does not always get addressed - I have neice's and nephews that have been repeatedly bullied and beaten up at state schools where the school has done little to address it.

XelaM · 30/11/2022 10:11

StressedOutMumBex · 30/11/2022 09:41

Actually it does not always get addressed - I have neice's and nephews that have been repeatedly bullied and beaten up at state schools where the school has done little to address it.

Exactly. It's completely disingenuous to suggest all state schools deal with bullying better than all private schools. It totally depends on the school. There are countless threads on Mumsnet about various state schools' inability to deal with bullying.

I actually personally know a girl (friend's daughter) who is having a horrendous time at a well-known all-girls state school and the school is doing nothing to address it. I also know at least two kids who have been expelled from private schools (two different schools) - one for bullying and one for possessing weed. One of those kids has a VERY wealthy father (my former boss) and the other kid was the child of a teacher at the school. So not all private schools refuse to get rid of problem kids.

In reality, most schools are quite rubbish at dealing with bullying. It's not a private vs state divide.

StressedOutMumBex · 30/11/2022 10:24

Tigerstotty · 29/11/2022 19:19

Err.... I've worked in 2 private schools and bullying is endemic. I couldn't keep count of the children who were taken out by their parents (mine included from one of them) because of weak SLT who were too afraid of rich overbearing parents to deal with it! The only time they may act is if it is race or sexual orientation related. Class sizes were large in both (minmum 24) one school had 2 classes per year group and one school had 3 classes per year group, pastoral care was non existent as the OP found out. Facilities were good though as were trips and extra curricular activities but hey, £18000+ per year will buy you all that and more without your children being abused at will day in day out. Maybe your children were good at sport or music or acting and didn't look different in anyway because, in my experience, if they weren't good at sport or they were 'different ' in any way, God help them!. I'd be interested to know if you've ever worked in a private school and know the inner workings - what gets said in meetings and the staff room, how staff talk about 'problem parents' causing them extra work and what 'we' need to do to 'smooth " it over! The only thing that is actually important to them is money! I beg to differ that private school education is generally better as, if you can actually get private schools to publish their results tables, are no better than state schools. Judging by the numerous comments on this thread and other threads, bullying in private schools is a disease that will never be tackled properly through fear of losing children and children equal money and losing money means closure. I'm positive that the OP's children will love their new 'state' education as, other than the bullying, there will be no difference.

@Tigerstotty All I can say is perhaps the schools you worked at were led by weak headteachers or were just plain awful. Your experience is definitely not mine. Just for the record I have one child with ASD (so yes - different, highly intelligent but socially awkward) which is why bullies targeted him, it was dealt with swiftly and to my satisfaction. Class sizes were always less than 20 kids vs. the 30 plus seen in most state schools. There are some nice private schools out there regardless of your experience and I have friends with kids in other private schools that are perfectly happy. The one we used was run by members of the same family for 125 years, always has a waitlist and so is not particularly at the mercy of 'over bearing' parents throwing their money around.
As for the results - yes they do publish their results and a lot of the private schools do have better pass rates at 11 plus and better SATs than the state schools which are on average around 30% pass rate for 11 plus in my area, that is why a lot of parents opt for private education in prep schools.
As for the inner workings of the school and meetings - I dont care about what gets said in the staff room, I care about how my children are educated, looked after and happy, so if the staff thought I was a pain in the arse at any point so be it, it does not change my opinion that we had a good overall experience and a good outcome for secondary schools (and so have many others). I bet the exactly the same goes on in the staff room in state schools.
Lastly, just FYI we have relatives who sent their kids to state secondary schools and whilst this is not my experience, some of the things that have happened are truly shocking, even some of the Grammer schools have terrible reputations for bullying, bad behaviour & drugs. I think your experience of 2 private schools has totally coloured your judgement here, you cant tar all private schools with the same brush anymore than you can paint all state schools as fantastic. Bullying exists across the board in schools and its how its dealt with that really counts.

SinnerBoy · 30/11/2022 12:02

Oh dear, I really feel for you and your DD. Some teacher and especially heads seem to be completely useless.

My girl is in Y5 now and in Y3, a lad started constantly going up to her, leaning forward right into her face and glaring at her. She told me and I said to tell a teacher and to try to ignore it. She told one teacher, who told her not to be a tell tale and another said, "Oh dear, just ignore it."

We were in the park and he came up and did it, she said, "You see? I told you he keeps doing it!" I moved us away from him. He did it again, in front of me and I spoke to his mother, who turned and walked off, with no comment.

This had started in the January, but I hadn't realised just how bad it was, partly because I work away, for long periods. FF to Y4, last October. I got home and she told me that our girl was in the time out book and banned from playtime for two weeks. He'd gone up and done it in the playground and she'd stuck her tongue out, which was seen by the headmaster; he called her a bully.

My wife and her sister (moral support) went in for a meeting, where the head looked at the ceiling, twiddled his thumbs, wouldn't make eye contact and kept asking, "What's she doing here?" He accused our girl of a campaign of bullying. When she stuck her tongue out, he asked the lad if he should put her in the time out book.

Also, my girl and her friend were making a video, in the park, after the tongue incident. The boy ran past them and then ran to his mother and said, "Oh, she said she's going to put it on Youtube with my name and address!" (complete fabrication) The mother snatched the phone away and tried to delete things, so my wife demanded it back. She told the boy's mother that she was sick to death of his behaviour, the mother said that she was going to tell the school that our girl had been continuing to "bully" him.

My wife said fine, I'll tell them what really happened. The other mother said, "Don't worry, son, Miss S. is a good friend of mine, you won't be in trouble."

I spoke to my sister, a high school nurse and she asked one of her year heads. She said that the HM was grossly unprofessional and wondered if he'd had any lived experience as a human being!

I went to see her class teacher, who told me that the HM had said that the boy was "only looking." I explained what I'd seen, asked if she'd seen the glaring and named the two teachers who'd ignored her. She admitted that she hadn't. I told he what my sister's colleague had said and that the other mother had said she'd use her influence.

That sat her up. I said that I was sure it wasn't true that she would do anything like that, but that it could make her look bad, if people believed it. The next day, she phoned to say that the teachers were primed to look out for him hassling her and that they'd been put on opposite sides of the class. Also that the head had taken them aside and given them a homily about being kind.

Why should she have to be kind to a nasty little shit like that?

Anyway, she asked me if I thought the HM was wrong and I said yes, but I think it's sorted. I told her not to say anything, so of course, she went up to the HM the next day and said that; he said, no, you're both wrong and you're a bully. She was distraught.

I spent a week composing a letter to the school governors. I had to keep toning it down, as it was clear I was blazing.

I eventually got a bland reply, to the effect that the head had dealt with it, be kind, blah blah, that's not his reading of it, he's very experienced etc etc.

I told her that it was her last year there and to just try and get through It's spoiled her experience of school. She's at middle school now and got into a bit of trouble in the first few weeks, as she was resentful and under the impression that all the adults are against her. They've been much better in trying to work with her and she only tends to have one tantrum a week, when it's time to go to school!

ExDancer · 01/12/2022 10:48

Why have you brought her up to be sensitive about her height?
I was, and am still, tiny - and I love it, I could never have been a ballet dancer if I'd been tall.
She is obviously very upset about being small, and you are encouraging it, please stop.

Remind her the late Queen was very small, King Charles is small, so is Rishi Sunak for that matter.
You won't change her sensitivity about her smallness now, but do bring her up to accept that its something she's going to have to learn to live with, as she'll probably never be tall.

All the same her punishment was grossly unfair and you perhaps need to put your complaint in writing to the school governors. Also point out to them, politely, that you are aware of the financial value of the bully-child's large family and appreciate their dilemma should her parents threaten to remove them from the school.

If it gets really bad write to the Independent Schools Authority, They won't want a reputation for bullying.

RandomMess · 01/12/2022 11:06

@ExDancer have you ever been mercilessly bullied?

If so what were you bullied about?

marktayloruk · 01/12/2022 14:15

I'd hardly call Rishi a role model. The King was about 5-10 at his peak, as it were. And, as a never - recovered exvictim, I don't regard putting your tongue out as bullying.

Linda409 · 07/12/2022 08:39

Well anyone could have told you that. You go swimming with sharks you get bitten. Please don’t enforce your over privileged children on our state school kids.

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