To be annoyed at DD’s punishment

[LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet]

DD (9, Y5) has been getting picked on by a girl for a couple of years now. It seems to happen in peaks and troughs. But this girl’s focus is on DD’s height. She’s very small for her age, as is her dad. If you looked at her you’d think she was 7yo max. Her 5yo brother is only 2 inches shorter, and some of her friends are head and shoulders taller. And the girl picking on her constantly calls her titch, shorty, dwarf, shortarse and constantly pats her on the head like she’s a dog. If something has been said in class when they’re learning, for example the teacher describes a ‘small mountain’ this girl will shout out “Just like Emily” (meaning my DD, not her real name).

I raised it last year but she had a bit of a hippy teacher in his last year of teaching who said things like “I’ll work on empowering Emily” and “I’ll do a lesson on how name calling isn’t ok” - which is all very well but FFS just tell this girl to stop it!!!

I raised it with the head who is as much use as a chocolate fireguard and just says “Oh well these things happen and we do encourage resilience”. Which I agree with but one child can only take so much.

To avoid drip feeding - this is a private school with very low numbers and the bully girl is one of 5 siblings. I’ve strongly suspected they don’t want to upset the family in case they pull all their kids out. It seems to be a pattern with wealthy/large families, whereas I only have 2 in school.

Anyway I spoke to her new teacher in the first day of term and said it absolutely cannot happen this year as DD is starting to dread school and has come home crying too often, and I don’t wanna have to pull her out. New teacher is much more of a ball buster than last year’s teacher and said she’d directly pull any name calling or mean behaviour. And all seemed to go well this term (except for the odd incident). Until today.

DD’s teacher called me to say that all her break times will be removed next week and she will have to stay indoors. Apparently the bully girl made a comment when DD was asked to pin something she’s done on a display the wall. She said “Someone get Emily a stepladder”.

DD replied and said “I may be short but at least I’m not fat.” The girl in question is quite overweight. She burst into tears and DD has had that punishment.

Now I’m not condoning what DD said, I’ve always said we never talk about how people look because look how awful it makes someone feel. But after 2 years of grief from this girl when there’s been NO action taken against her, my DD seemingly has snapped and now is being punished for 1 offence. The bully girl was made to apologise but isn’t getting the same punishment.

Full disclosure: DH has suggested before that DD say this to the girl (to which I promptly said FGS NO don’t say that!). But bear in mind we had her coming home upset and crying yet again by this nasty girl who just won’t fucking stop.DH got fed up and said that if she can comment on DD’s height the only way to stop it is to bite back equally as hard. Which I don’t agree with - but I bet that’s why DD’s said it.

WIBU to see the Head and say this is unfair, yes DD should be punished but why hasn’t the other girl ever had a punishment once? Why is fat shaming terrible but height shaming ok and should be tolerated? Neither can be helped of children. I did tell her teacher I’m not happy but she seemed to think it was much more unacceptable what DD said than what the other girl said!

ISI have a parental questionnaire via email. Let rip here. And remind HT that ISI won’t look favourably on bullying not being dealt with according to policy.
do you have a copy of their anti billing policy?

I think your DD needs a medal. 2 years of relentless bullying and she stands up for herself once and all the adults fawn over the bully - no chance.
I find it unbelievable you are paying to send your daughter into this lions den every day too.
Good on your husband for encouraging your daughter to stand up for herself. I would not be punishing her. It's punitive and you're telling her she was wrong to defend herself

The punishment outweighs the bad behaviour. It was one comment after someone else criticised her first. She didn't even say 'At least I'm not fat like you'. If we go on this incident alone then both girls should be receiving the exact same punishment so I would ask the school if they are doing this and if not why not. Then I would take a record of all the times your daughter has been verbally abused at school and all the times you have spoken to them and ask what they have done to prevent this behaviour from their pupils.

I made an account just to say, your daughter did the right thing, in my opinion its been a long time coming, particularly since neither the teacher nor the Head were willing to take action. And yes it certainly isn't fair the punishment your daughter received for calling the girl fat vs. The girl making fun of your daughter’s height, no one has the right to say ur one is worse than the other also your daughter endured this treatment for more than a year.
I certainly teach my daughter to fight her own battles and stand up to herself but also be aware that life isn't fair sometimes and there are consequences but at least ppl would think twice before messing with her.
Also now maybe you have the parents attention and you can relay to their daughter’s behaviour.

Sorry have not yet RTFT but based on your OP I would go ballistic. I am both Indy parent and Indy staff and no way is this OK on any level. Meeting with the Head and fully go for it.

Horrendous parenting. Reinforcing negative behaviour and teaching them to be superficial. Two wrongs don’t make a right!!!

Omg I’m so utterly sorry you had to go through this! That’s absolutely & utterly disgusting! I’m glad u eventually moved schools but kids/teens can be so mean and I honestly don’t think they understand what all those nasty comments do to a persons mental & sometimes physical health! I’m glad you got through it all ok u sound like a very strong lady & a great role model- but I’m so so sorry you endured all that! I was always the shorty in my class (still am now at 36 and 5ft 1! 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️) but thankfully I didn’t get anywhere near this amount of torture- one thing that does stick out in my memory tho was in around 1st/2nd year in high school, it was the start of a maths lesson (teacher was one of these pricks that think they are funny when they’re really not!) we were told to stand up so we all did- he looked at me and said (insert name here) I said stand up - everyone looked at me to see I was standing and burst out laughing, I snapped back with something along the lines of “ha ha sir very funny” & sat back down again and said I wasn’t getting back up after that comment! A-hole!

A couple of people have mentioned resilience, and I think in the course of bullying, that's a misunderstood concept. Resilience to bullying isn't just letting it wash over you, accepting and ignoring it, bouncing back or whatever. Being proactive about stopping bullying is something a resilient person would do. Being resilient is about being able to handle situations confidently and effectively, having the strength to take action where needed to protect your mental health. I think by having your daughters back and being clear that you are not accepting this from the bully or the school, you are teaching your daughter to be resilient in a bullying situation. She will see what you are doing and learn that she can do that too.

It's interesting because I believe I have brought my DC to be resilient to bullying. There is a lot of cheeky banter in our house and my DC absolutely take the mickey out of each other. My youngest has grease lightening wit and response as a result of older siblings and cousins giving him a hard time when he was younger.

We had a bullying incident with my youngest that I mentioned upthread, where the child was upset because they moved from a small village school to large 2ndary and my DC wanted to meet new people. The other child lied and spread rumours about my DS and his parents caused a lot of trouble. I know for a fact that my DS didnt start it, but he didnt take it. The only thing they had on my son was that he dished it back verbally with spades. He never used discriminatory or personal comments, but just made jokes and put downs back. His parents complaints where that their DC didn't have any siblings and were hurt by the comments. They completely forgot that thier DC is a nasty, manipulative, spiteful bully. Not too unlike the OP's situation. When I went in to see the head, I established what they source was, and then told them that my DC is free to stick up for themselves and if the other DC had zero resilience then they shouldn't be dishing it out if they cant take it, and that I would be encouraging my DS to deal with bullies with his tongue, and not his fists and no one was going to tell me otherwise.

Banter can be seen as a form of bullying in schools @TippermostToppermostHigh

Interesting that your youngest had to form a way of responding to his cousins and siblings giving him a hard time, rather than someone stopping the behaviour of the older children

Great to see private schools haven't changed. I went to a Quaker school for secondary as my parents worked and lived overseas. I was bullied relentlessly for 5 years and the 1 time I literally fought back I was sent before the headmistress. Me & the bully had to shake hands & make up FFS! My mum made numerous complaints but school did nothing. I wonder whether it had something to do with the bully having a parent as a teacher? 🙄
My parents have a lot of guilt still over this, and now as a parent I don't take any shit if there's a sniff of bullying at my daughter's school. If a school didn't listen she'd be moved to another school.
As for being punished, that's just saying don't stick up for your self worth. You need to be your child's advocate and biggest supporter. Trust me, it's taken her a lot of strength to stick up for herself. Secondary school ages are very important in a child's development and if a child is not supported properly it can lead to problems as a young adult and further. I still have a lot of self esteem issues which stem back to being bullied and not supported.
I wish you and your child all the best x

I'm against boarding schools on principle. Banter.should be stopped when it's obviously and deliberately making someone miserable - otherwise it's best to give as good as you get! I write as a victim who's never recovered

I promised I’d update!

Sent the email today summarising the conversation and highlighted in their anti-bullying policy where they’ve gone against their own principles. No reply, but that’s to be expected. DD had a good day and bully girl was apparently kind to her! She had her break indoors and billy girl has hers tomorrow.

That's great news the bully was nicer to DD today, OP. Fingers crossed the comment from your DD has made a difference!

I don't have anything constructive to say and think the school's behaviour to date is pretty atrocious. However, as someone who was bullied all through secondary school, I can tell you that the moment I fought back in sixth form it went away over night.

I think your daughter is amazing for having that courage after its been going on for so long, with no apparent backing from her teachers, and I'd be interested to see how the bully treats her now. I learned that if you let people use you as a doormat they will, and it seems like your daughter found her own way to 'empower' herself - good for her, it's just a shame the school have taken the wrong approach. I hope things get better from here

I am so invested in this I had to rejoin Mumsnet after an 8+ year break to find out what happened!

Sounds like you’ve handled it all really well!

I still think they're arseholes to punish her at all. Everyone has a breaking point.

And how exactly does incompetence on their part constitute a misdemeanour on your DDs part?

I hate bullies. I’d be quite proud of my daughter if she stood up for herself like that. For me I would tell the school she isn’t missing any breaks and if they keep pushing it then you will take it public so that everyone knows what kind of school they are running.

My daughter was getting bullied by a boy who kept calling her fat and hitting and poking her etc, I went in multiple times and spoke to the school, nothing got sorted and every time the teacher told his mum she rewarded him with McDonald’s (I was on the playground when the conversations happened) so I took matters in to my own hands and followed the mum off of school grounds and told her every time her son hurt or upset my daughter I would be doing exactly the same to her. There has been no bullying since.

It’s happening again!

Today DD went to sit down at computer club at lunch and this girl pulled the chair away saying “No that seat isn’t for you it’s for Lucy. You have to sit somewhere else”. And then in the playground they apparently told her she wasn’t included in a conversation and to go away - then kept looking at her and laughing in the conversation they did have. DD is in tears. Again.

I’m fucking sick of this. Spoke to her teacher and get this - “I will do a session with the girls in kindness” - JUST FUCKING TELL HER TO STOP BEING A BULLY!!

Am I going out my mind, is this not ok to say to kids anymore?!

Put it in writing again. Copy the HOY and HT.

Use the word bullying and reference their anti-bullying policy again. Ask them how they plan to keep your DD safe. Tell them that two years of chats about kindness have not stopped this bully and you would like them to reply tomorrow with their plans to address this.

Its not unreasonable to request that the school speaks to the bully’s parents, although they may not confirm whether or not this happens.

Making a lot of noise and involving several senior staff members will keep their firmly on their plate until they deal with it properly.

Does the school have trustees?

Spoke to her teacher and get this - “I will do a session with the girls in kindness”

I'd be livid too, in your shoes. They are completely abdicating their duty to your daughter.

Would it be reasonable to hire a solicitor to assist you with this? Maybe that would get their attention.

That’s awful

speaking to the whole class about “kindness” is a cop out.
this is one girl, deliberately and repeatedly bullying another.

id be requesting another meeting with the head.

I'd go up there and demand to speak to the head. Go armed with the schools policies on bullying, tell them you want the other parent called in and that you do not give permission for your daughter to be punished for anything said to this girl in retaliation. Everyone has a breaking point and this has been allowed to continue far too long.

I mean I'd like to make an excuse to walk up to the gates with your DD and loudly exclaim 'is that the one that tries to pick on you? The fat one with the dodgy skin?' But that's probably not the best advice 😂

Private schools will do Jack shit! It's all about the money. If you are going to pursue it, you need to ask how they are SAFEGUARDING your daughter and her wellbeing They will have to do something then. You must also write to ISI and the DFE. But - do you really want to keep putting her through this? I took my child out of a private school due to bullying. I worked there (so only paid 50% fees) fighting against girls who's families were paying 100% and more siblings there. It felt like I was abusing her by continually putting her back into the same situation day in day out. She thrived in a different school. Ended up with fantastic gcse & A level results and is studying law at University. By taking her out she regained her self esteem and we got our happy, beautiful, amazing daughter back. Good luck with everything. I feel your pain.GO GET THEM! Please keep us updated

I mean I'd like to make an excuse to walk up to the gates with your DD and loudly exclaim 'is that the one that tries to pick on you? The fat one with the dodgy skin?' But that's probably not the best advice 😂

LOL, one can dream though.

I sent an angry email to the head of the junior school and the senior school too. Senior school head rang tonight, think he expected home to think he was wonderful for working at 5.25pm. Lots of drivel about empowerment, I said FFS tell this girl to stop it! Apparently they will speak to her parents, and her.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

My next step is to speak to her mum or dad