To be annoyed at DD’s punishment

[LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet]

DD (9, Y5) has been getting picked on by a girl for a couple of years now. It seems to happen in peaks and troughs. But this girl’s focus is on DD’s height. She’s very small for her age, as is her dad. If you looked at her you’d think she was 7yo max. Her 5yo brother is only 2 inches shorter, and some of her friends are head and shoulders taller. And the girl picking on her constantly calls her titch, shorty, dwarf, shortarse and constantly pats her on the head like she’s a dog. If something has been said in class when they’re learning, for example the teacher describes a ‘small mountain’ this girl will shout out “Just like Emily” (meaning my DD, not her real name).

I raised it last year but she had a bit of a hippy teacher in his last year of teaching who said things like “I’ll work on empowering Emily” and “I’ll do a lesson on how name calling isn’t ok” - which is all very well but FFS just tell this girl to stop it!!!

I raised it with the head who is as much use as a chocolate fireguard and just says “Oh well these things happen and we do encourage resilience”. Which I agree with but one child can only take so much.

To avoid drip feeding - this is a private school with very low numbers and the bully girl is one of 5 siblings. I’ve strongly suspected they don’t want to upset the family in case they pull all their kids out. It seems to be a pattern with wealthy/large families, whereas I only have 2 in school.

Anyway I spoke to her new teacher in the first day of term and said it absolutely cannot happen this year as DD is starting to dread school and has come home crying too often, and I don’t wanna have to pull her out. New teacher is much more of a ball buster than last year’s teacher and said she’d directly pull any name calling or mean behaviour. And all seemed to go well this term (except for the odd incident). Until today.

DD’s teacher called me to say that all her break times will be removed next week and she will have to stay indoors. Apparently the bully girl made a comment when DD was asked to pin something she’s done on a display the wall. She said “Someone get Emily a stepladder”.

DD replied and said “I may be short but at least I’m not fat.” The girl in question is quite overweight. She burst into tears and DD has had that punishment.

Now I’m not condoning what DD said, I’ve always said we never talk about how people look because look how awful it makes someone feel. But after 2 years of grief from this girl when there’s been NO action taken against her, my DD seemingly has snapped and now is being punished for 1 offence. The bully girl was made to apologise but isn’t getting the same punishment.

Full disclosure: DH has suggested before that DD say this to the girl (to which I promptly said FGS NO don’t say that!). But bear in mind we had her coming home upset and crying yet again by this nasty girl who just won’t fucking stop.DH got fed up and said that if she can comment on DD’s height the only way to stop it is to bite back equally as hard. Which I don’t agree with - but I bet that’s why DD’s said it.

WIBU to see the Head and say this is unfair, yes DD should be punished but why hasn’t the other girl ever had a punishment once? Why is fat shaming terrible but height shaming ok and should be tolerated? Neither can be helped of children. I did tell her teacher I’m not happy but she seemed to think it was much more unacceptable what DD said than what the other girl said!

This happened to my DS in primary, other child was actually excluded once for the bullying, but that was the only punishment she ever received, never missed out on trips or activities etc. towards the end of year 6 my DS started to bite back. The school called and told me if he carried on he would be missing the year 6 leaving celebrations. I told them that little miss bully had missed naff all all these years and because they now can't handle my DS biting back, because they didn't deal with the situation effectively, they want to punish DS or throw out ridiculous threats. I then told them if my DS missed anything I would take him out, take him to Disneyland as a treat, and post there BS all over the media. My DS wasn't spoken to again about his biting back after that.

Insist your DD take maybe 1 break, ONLY if the other girl is receiving that same punishment. Tbf you may not be informed of any punishments the other girl receives due to confidentiality but your DD can surely tell you if she missed the break or not. If not, take your DD out and make sure you let other prospective parents know just how the school approaches bullying. They all spout "zero tolerance", it's BS - the whole thing about building resilience is crap if it's upsetting them that much and relentless - maybe little miss bully needs to be resilient to your DDs fat comments in return.

I just want to say I'm so sorry @Rosscameasdoody for what you went through, and everyone who was bullied as a child.

I wonder what the bullies think of themselves now?

this isn’t about punishment of either child really, any more. It’s about your daughter feeling safe and protected. That school has repeatedly shown they don’t care about your daughter and that they couldn’t give a toss about her feelings or safety. The most important thing now is that she feels supported and protected by YOU. Remove her from the school and send her somewhere she can feel safe and supported. She will remember what you did and love you for it.

im afraid I’m with your husband on this…… and I’m glad that girl got a taste of her own medicine and I hope she remembers how that feels.

I would make a complaint to the board, trustees whatever your school has. Also report it too ofstead. also if they have a inspection for safeguarding, contact them and raise this.

Another thing I would encourage your daughter to say, loudly, is "I don't like you bullying me: stop it." I eventually persuaded my daughter to do this after a lot of unpleasantness and the very first time she said it bully, who of course was a total coward, took fright at hearing the word "bullying" and backed right off. There is also no way your daughter can be criticised for saying this. (And as back up, teach your daughter a short definition of bullying to quote if required.)

The OPs daughter is punished for finally reacting to the torment, and you think it’s fine. This isn't about life being unfair sometimes, it’s a safeguarding issue and the school has failed in it’s duty. Bullying escalates if left unchecked, with potentially serious consequences. What kind of message are we sending to our kids if they're punished for standing up for themselves while the bullies get off Scott free ?

Hi OP, I think you did well. I would however be documenting all of this in writing, referring to specific language from the bullying policy and making serious plans to withdraw both children as you now have a good local alternative. The Head teacher is not competent with this so no doubt there are other issues.

If you can't easily find the bullying policy on the website, ring the Head's secretary and ask to be sent it.

Because he is not competent it is likely the issue will reoccur. You must keep a detailed diary from now on and confirm everything by email.

For what it's worth I have taught in an independent school where bullying was dealt with swiftly and effectively and state schools where it wasn't - it's all down to leadership.

Strongly agreeing with the argument to remove your children from the school. The values and leadership are appalling.

Make sure to document the ongoing bullying and send a copy to the school, for your daughter’s protection. Personally I would remove a child from that toxic environment immediately. It is not building resilience, it is continual grinding down with tacit approval from those in control.

Why pay to basically have your child abused. From your post it does not sound as if you have a good feeling about the place or the head. Be as vocal as possible, so your daughter can see there is no shame and the school is forced to learn from this.

Did you get that in writing? Or is it in the handbook? If so, bring all of the documentation with you as well as the documentation with the data, time
and who you spoke with regarding her being bullied.

This will help. If not, threaten to go to the news, social media etc. prepare to blast them everywhere!

Your daughter shouldn’t be punished and absolutely should be protected. Enough is enough.

I bet the bully is through with calling your DD names now!!! Not nice when your target retaliates and gets you back! Good on your girl, keep it up -it’s worth a lost break time x

Absolutely tell the school this is not acceptable. Get a meeting organised with Head and class teacher and tell them that you believe your child is being singled out for defending herself. It is their job to put safeguarding measures in place when your child is in their school and they are failing to do so. However, if it was me, I would also be approaching the parents of the bully; advising them of how their child is behaving and telling THEM they need to deal with it.

Bullies don’t like anyone standing up to them. DD has had enough and answered back. What a load of crap from the school. The bully has been let off too many times. Go see the head teacher

Not unreasonable to complain at all. Did you log all the times you spoke to the teachers about the other girl?

Start doing that now, in case you need it in the future. Put it in an email every time.

They may not punish the other girl, but you should be able to insist that she is spoken to about her conduct in the past. It will most likely fit into the 'Child on Child abuse' category.

No you are not being unreasonable. As the mother of a small child, my eldest son, I completely understand. Also, please look at the United Nations convention on the rights of a child 1989. Children have the right to play, it is a protected right and the school taking away break as a form of punishment is in breach of this. Print a copy off and take it to the head, they will be less likely to mess around again. From a primary school teacher

Oops, I hadn’t caught up obviously when I posted, sorry! Awesome job on standing up for your DD.

I hope you have/had and awesome girls weekend.

Anmore bullying that happens, report and expect action right away.

I also agree with writing what happened in the meeting and what was agreed upong Re the bullying and their words Re the bullshit. Best to have it on paper for future BS

Maybe what your DD said will help in the long-term after all? Tell your daughter not to repeat it if she wants to avoid punishment, but she can always do a non-verbal comment. Like if this other girl comments on her lenght, give a short chuckle? Or giggle? Insinuating "you know what I think about yóú don't you?"

I recently saw a Richard Osman interview where he spoke about getting daily comments about his height (incredibly tall). It really made me think about the stuff we assume people can or will tolerate whilst other stuff is seen as unacceptable to comment on - weight, race, non-Christian religious belief, nationality, sexuality, gender identity etc. Meanwhile red hair, height, sight issues requiring glasses and teeth issues are fair game. It properly p’s me off!

Your daughter snapped. She bit back. Should she have been punished? Yes, but only if the other girl was being punished at the same time in the same way. This was an opportunity for the school to talk to both girls about what has been happening between them. As much as your daughter needs to learn to become resilient, the other girl needs to learn to not be a b when she perceives someone as being different to herself.

Resilience is not just about allowing someone to walk all over you or to simply internalise your pain and learn to put on a brave face. Your daughter’s school have been negligent in their responsibility to your daughter. You have every right to remind them of that.

I speak in the capacity of a former teacher and current trainee psychotherapeutic counsellor.

A person can only take so much before they've had enough and your daughter was right in every way to stick up for herself and give the bully a taste of her own medicine. As for the school no one likes bad publicity, if it were me I would threaten them with going to the press and and radio etc regarding their handling of the bullies I doubt they want the school's name dragged through the mud, and hopefully they will deal with it.

I was your DD 34 years ago. A girl in my class bullied me relentlessly, and she made my life miserable. Teachers knew yet did nothing. My parents had meetings with the teachers, still nothing. One day she pushed me (physically, and metaphorically), & I snapped. I hit her, hard. Needless to say, I was punished for it, and I am STILL angry that I got punished for it. However, the plus side was that she never came near me again.
When my own daughter was bullied in a similar way in school, and teachers were just as useless (headmistress actually had the audacity to put it down to "boys being boys" & justify it with saying it was "because they like her", & one of the teaching assistants told my daughter not to tell lies to get other children into trouble, even though the assault had been witnessed by another parent 😡), I took no prisoners. Firstly, I ensured EVERY complaint was put in writing. Don't discuss it on the phone or in person, because they will claim it never happened. ALWAYS in writing. Secondly, I told the school that I had given my daughter permission to fight back in whatever way she needed to, and shown her how to do it, and if one of the boys was hurt in the process, so be it. Thirdly, when it became clear that they couldn't, or wouldn't, keep my child safe, I removed her from the school. It took a few years, but after more incidents at the school, OFSTED & the local authority (who I had also complained to) finally intervened. The headteacher took early retirement and the teaching assistant was disciplined. It was only then that my daughter's nightmares stopped. Even though it was 8 years ago, that bullying has stayed with her. However, advocating for her then has meant that when other bits of bullying has cropped up since, she has put her foot down & insisted it was dealt with. She takes no ! Advocate for your daughter now, and show her she doesn't have to take abuse from others. And, please, do not tell her she deserves the punishment. She doesn't. She shouldn't have to resort to tit for tat in order to get her voice heard.

This is bollox. Your daughter reached breaking point because of their light-touch discipline. The bully got a taste of her own medicine. There's no way I'd roll with this punishment. I'd write a letter documenting the history of horrible comments towards your daughter, and explain to them you'll be taking it further if they don't reverse any effort to punish your daughter right away.

I’d be absolutely furious and would kick up hell until that punishment is removed.

Or I would be telling the school that if dd was height shamed again and the other girl didn’t get the same punishment, then dd would be saying the same retaliation every single time after.

Yes definitely email the school. You need it in writing. There is not a difference between picking on a child’s weight or height. Your daughter stood up for herself as the teachers have not. I would be livid about them keeping her in. If they need to prove a point they keep them both in. I would be calling them up on their bullying policy. And include the governors and detail previous complaints you have made. I would look at other schools tbh.

I would be encouraging my daughter to keep saying this to the godawful bully. This girl now thinks she has the green light to keep her campaign of bullying up against your poor daughter. I would be removing her (and sibling) from the school, lodging a formal complaint and watching the head sweat profusely. Tell them you are encouraging resilience. What a wee shame :-( any adult would find it hard not to crack after 2 years. School sounds dreadful.

OP,

When you write up your email, keep in mind it being read by others.

List out ALL the approaches to the school that were ignored.

The huge provocation your child faced.

The torment and humiliation of this child touching her with the patting.

Spell it all out.

Frame it for Ofsted etc reading.

Years ago the son of a VERY senior member of the Judiciary was bullying a child in my sons year (different class) and it had been apparently ignored by the school when reported.

The boy being bullied was a very talented singer and involved in drama.

The bully called the boy a gay slur in front of the class, and the mother went nuclear when told that evening.

She wrote a scathing email to the HT spelling it out as a hate crime that she would now be involving the police, withdrawing her son, and she intended to foward this email to the media as the school was clearly homophobic.

She was in first thing the following morning.

It was FINALLY taken VERY seriously, the other parents were called in told that the childs parents intended to involve police, (the other parents REALLY did not want this and were appalled 🤔 they hadn't been informed earlier by the school what had been happening) the full hoo haa.

She told an entire table at a dinner I was at, what had happened (I hadn't heard) and that she had followed up with an email detailing the minutes of the meeting and everything that had been said and agreed.

She also wrote that if she heard of any other bullying going on she would be approaching other parents and circulating the correspondence widely.

She very openly named those involved and was very rude about the HT😁

Schools that ignore persistent bully deserve the scorched earth approach.

I hadn't met that women before, but was very impressed by her.

Write to the Head. If you’re not happy, forward any correspondence over the past two years to the Chair of Governors and make a complaint.

It does seem to be the message of ‘pupils need to be more resilient’. While we don’t want to be raising snowflakes, we do need to raise a generation of people who accept all shapes, sizes, races, religions. Allowing this girl to pick
on your daughter tells her it’s ok to disrespect others. It’s not on.