Need advice on this possibly terrible/weak parenting decision of mine.

[KidsArt]

Really want brutal opinions pls.

DS1 is 3 years old. He can be pretty challenging, in his own world, never listens, doesn't want to play with others, and his nursery have talked about ASD.

DH doesn't work on Fridays. He takes DS1 and DS2 (18 months) swimming. They all love it.

I work from home on Fridays.

DH just couldn't get DS1 ready. He wasn't listening. Refusing to get dressed. Playing with his trains. Running away from DH. this went on for 20 mins

DH left without him. Took DS2 and just walked out. He did give DS1 warning that he would leave unless he got dressed.

DS1 lost his mind. I mean, sobbing, wailing, throwing himself at the door. "I want my daddy. Where is daddy? I want to go swimming. Why not me? Please please. Where is Daddy. I'm sorry I'm sorry"

I don't think I've ever seen him that upset. He was shaking. He got all his clothes and was trying to put his own pants on, falling over, crying, collecting his towel, trying to get out the front door, looking for the car out the window.

I made DH come back and get him.

DH thinks this the reason DS1 is the way he is. That he needed to suck it up.

Is he right?

Nobody knows if the child is SEN or not. People are just speculating.

Not teaching and having firm structures for SEN isn't doing them in favors in life. It's ableist to think they aren't capable of behaving. Sadly some parents use it as an excuse to do nothing with their child other let them them wreak havoc.

The parents show up here when the child is 15 or so and so violently out of control, the parents are being beaten and abused.

You're right. It takes practice and it's hard work.

Presumably your husband was there this morning when DS1 didn't want to go downstairs. Why did he not step in and show you how to make it non-negotiable? If he thinks he has the answers then why did he not show you how to do it? You didn't give in, he went downstairs and didn't wake his brother which was the outcome that you needed. I imagine if you had just carried him downstairs and woken his brother your husband would have criticised that approach too.

Look, your son is only 3 and may be ASD/SEN. Even for a child of that age without any disabilties, they are very young and would find this difficult so I would give them a bit of leniency with going out on time. However, it is important that they start to learn at this age, so they need to be given a clear message. Someone's suggestion of a social story upthread is great. Show your son the story of what happens when he is going to the baths, maybe with a choice of whether he gets dressed or not and what happens then. Tell him what is going to happen if he does or doesn't get dressed next time, and follow it through.

Awwwww... He's 3! Of course he should go swimming!! At that age, most kids muck about a bit and are hard to get through the door without resistance! A little 'tickle monster is coming for you if your not ready soon' and a countdown of '5, 4, 3, 2...' often did the trick for mine at that age!

I'm quite a soft mummy, never gave harsh punishments, but my 10 and 8 yr olds have turned out lovely so far! They are v well behaved, kind and thoughtful. I don't think kids benefit from a very heavy and strict attitude when under 5. They just need to feel loved really

Sorry OP but I think your DH probably had a point there, I’m surprised he actually returned to get him - if my DH tried to overrule my parenting decision (especially one that was only going to inconvenience me) and undermine what I had said I would likely go ape-shit and wouldn’t have returned - fair enough if completely out of line etc but the consequences do seem fair in this instance

24 years of experience of family relationships/professional work environment with children/teens with ASD here too and know you’re definitely not helping DS by allowing him to dictate everything, yes he is still very young but unfortunately all children need to eventually learn the world can’t always wait for them

That said though it sounds like you have lots of wonderful practices involved at home and raising toddlers in general (even without the possibility of ASD) is bloody brutal and the fact you’re so concerned about the ramifications of this mini incident means you’re clearly a fab mum 💐💐💐

I would have done the same as you, I did a lot of things back then when ds was younger that people told me were bad decisions

It was all no, he's getting his own way . He needs to learn you won't pander to him . Just pick him up and take him 🙄 you shouldn't leave because he's had enough.

I ignored them all and he's 9 now , in ms school still, no longer has an iep is doing fantastic . Especially for a child who was non verbal at 3 and at the time quite violent

You say you have others involved ? We had a ssfs worker who was fantastic. She supported me and helped with the transition to the school environment just before he turned 3 . She was able to tell the school that what they were trying wouldn't work and they listened , more than they did when I'd tell them.

We no longer have violent outburst or even really bad meltdowns, he's older and more able to communicate how he feels. I think a lot of it is down to him knowing as a small child I wasn't going to make him deal with situations he wasn't able to .

It took time, I didn't give in to him but I certainly didn't make situations worse if I know he was on the edge of meltdown like your ds was today with waking up his brother

And I would never have put him in the position where I would have left him if he wasn't ready , transition is hard and it sounds like your dh doesn't handle it well .

Don't think that what you are doing now to support him means he's going to grow up violent with no boundaries he's 3! I can't believe people who supposedly work with people who have asd think that. Although I guess there's good and bad support workers in every field!

Some of the comments coming from people who claim to be experienced in childcare are worrying. The OP is looking for the best way to support and teach her child and is being met with comments like
It's ableist to think they (children with sen) aren't capable of behaving. Sadly some parents use it as an excuse to do nothing with their child other than let them wreak havoc etc etc...

What?
What exactly about the OP coming on MN looking for advice and helpful techniques makes the pp think OP wants to do nothing with her child? What makes pp think she isn't trying her very best to find the methods that work for her children and her family? What makes anyone think she isn't working hard?

Sometimes things are more difficult, especially when children have additional needs, which may or may not be relevant here. So parents need more help. What they do not need is censure and looking-down-the-nose judgement from people who most likely have never dealt with a child like theirs. Fine to make a point if you think the wrong approach is being used and you have relevant experience. But comments designed to shame (such as the one above) should have no place in a helpful discussion. And hinting that she'll end up beaten and abused if she doesn't do things the right way (your way) is plain nasty!

Late to the thread I know - but please don't blame yourself here. ASD kids struggle to understand abstracts and consequences - and have no hope aged three! You have to choose your battles at that age and this sort of thing is not one of them. You can't say 'hurry up and get ready' - it's 'we always do this when we want to go swimming don't we?' Direct orders are counter-productive.

It's such a hard age but keep calm and cut him some slack. He does need boundaries but enforcing threats won't help at this age - it's about working with him to get the easiest and best outcome. Assuming he is on the spectrum - you will have some challenging years ahead but you'll be amazed how brilliant he will be in ten years time. Just don't let your DH make it all about battles.

Good luck, and stand your ground !

I note your ds knew how to get ready as soon as he thought he was left. Your husband was right. You are in danger of raising a spoilt brat, and you didn't support your dh at all.

The OP was supposed to be working at the time of the incident @Zwellers. I would say that her DH didn't support her. He shouldn't have left the house without both children if they were in his charge.

Yeah sounds like he did a great job of getting ready sobbing and falling over trying to put his own pants on

this is just how my dad was with my brother - brother was eventually diagnosed asd. tell dh to pull his socks up and out perform my dad he was an asshole and that was 30 years ago.

Op ignore the spoilt brat comments. Your son is SEN so it's completely different

I think at 3 it’s often hard for children to focus on getting dressed once they have started playing. I prioritise getting my DD dressed first job in a morning as soon as she wakes up, because once she’s seen her toys and become engrossed it’s very hard to get her to focus on anything else, and it becomes impossible and stressful. So I think to some degree when an activity is planned that they need to be dressed for you need to pre-empt that and get them sorted well in advance, because if you only try to do it when there is the time pressure of having to leave then it just adds stress to the situation.

I realise my response could be misinterpreted- the original post has my support, it is other people's replies I find disgraceful. This tough love business is all wrong especially if the child is autistic (not the same as SEN). You are not being supported by your DH and his approach has escalated everything. I feel sorry for you.

It's hard, isn't it.

My suggestion is to make sure that your instructions are very clearly instructions. More nuanced wording can be hard for people with Adhd etc to see as instructions, instead of opinions or suggestions. Your examples:

'We need to get dressed now'. Not a logical instruction as presumably you are already dressed, and 'need to', well that's your opinion but not his. A straightforward 'DS, put your clothes on' is a clear instruction.

'let's go downstairs for breakfast' is another suggestion, not an instruction. 'come with me' is an instruction.

This made me really sad. It’s not how an autistic child should be being parented. If the autistic child in my family had been treated like this about swimming I’d have felt awful.

Please seek support and advice because at the moment your husband’s tactics aren’t going to help your kid, who will have struggled to understand why he is being punished for what is essentially anxiety about transitions. Maybe try some PECS cards to help him understand the routine? It sounds like this was quite a distressing experience for him and repeating it won’t help. What might is establishing a clear routine and trying to keep it as stress free as possible. Is he getting confused and overloaded? Is there a lot of clutter/distraction in your living environment? Are the clothes you are putting on him irritating him in some way? Try and think about what might be happening for him from a sensory point of view.

I’m wondering about his sibling. Obviously she shouldn’t miss out, but is there a way of incorporating her into getting her brother ready for swimming? Can she help him get ready or feel less anxious about getting ready to leave the house? It’s about helping him feel safe.

Agree with this. I think you made the right decision, especially as you were trying to work.

before I write this, I caveat that I haven’t read all the replies so am probably going over stuff already said.

YANBU
Your DS is possibly neurodiverse and on the spectrum this has been broached by nursery and show in behaviour described at home. It is not a case of “he’ll learn from this” as asd kids don’t learn in the same way - especially when mixed with something like adhd or odd which could very much be a possibility (I speak from experience as my 22yo ds had all three and we went through exactly what you are going through)

the key to starting to manage his asd is to amend the way you and your dh behave and deal with his tantrums and misbehaviour- he is running away and not behaving because he is struggling with the situation and that needs to be understood. Your dh would have been right in dealing with a neurotypical child like that but not asd (Believe me I’ve been there!) and having to back down is just as damaging because your ds will not understand why that happened.
I know it is difficult but you’ll both have to grow a thick skin and not get offended by his behaviour for the future so that you can take a step back and handle it when it starts.
start looking at websites supporting autism and get some training if you can - it’ll help I’m the longer run.

it’s going to be a long journey but I wish you all the luck x

I don’t think either of you are being U, you have to work and he was distressed but DP was practising parenting wisdom as well.

My advice (autistic adult, 4 sons 3 of whom are autistic, PGDip autism) would be to start parenting as if he is autistic regardless of what happens wrt dx. None of it is in any way problematic.

I’d recommend starting with a very basic pictorial schedule sheet (eg today for the morning it would be wake up, breakfast, wash / teeth, swim) and removing distractions as the trains when he needs to focus. Schedule train time in the morning if needed and use a timer (digital or you can buy egg timers) to count down eg ten minutes if needed. Give lots of verbal warnings when a change of activity is coming, we do half an hour, ten minutes, two minutes etc as needed.

I think you made the wrong call. Sorry. Need to teach him there are consequences of bad behaviour. By making DH come back you are reinforcing that no consequences.

When we had similar issues, we found that reward charts made all the difference. He could see how far off reaching the top of the chart he was, and he would move up the little rocket each time he done things well without disruption. When he reached the top he could choose a little treat (and these were only really small pound shop type things but he loved them). But when he kicked out etc he was told off for it and the rocket would need moving back down a step to show him it was wrong, and he started to learn his boundaries x

Exactly this. Clearly he was able to do exactly as needed when worried about being left so the ability to do what is expected is there. He had fair warning and your DH followed through on a threat which is something most of us fail with daily. While it's not ideal that he was left with you when you were working I say kudos to your DH for trying to teach your son a valuable lesson! Neurodiverse or not all kids need to know that there are consequences for their actions early on otherwise you end up with entitled teenagers who think the world revolves around them and they can get away with anything!

I also agree with another poster that undermining your DH is something to be really careful of. I'm guilty of this and our kids are now 13 and 16 and they don't have as much respect for DH as they should and that's my fault.
I also think your DH was right to not make your other son suffer because the older son was causing issues. He was right to still take him swimming.