Need advice on this possibly terrible/weak parenting decision of mine.

[KidsArt]

Really want brutal opinions pls.

DS1 is 3 years old. He can be pretty challenging, in his own world, never listens, doesn't want to play with others, and his nursery have talked about ASD.

DH doesn't work on Fridays. He takes DS1 and DS2 (18 months) swimming. They all love it.

I work from home on Fridays.

DH just couldn't get DS1 ready. He wasn't listening. Refusing to get dressed. Playing with his trains. Running away from DH. this went on for 20 mins

DH left without him. Took DS2 and just walked out. He did give DS1 warning that he would leave unless he got dressed.

DS1 lost his mind. I mean, sobbing, wailing, throwing himself at the door. "I want my daddy. Where is daddy? I want to go swimming. Why not me? Please please. Where is Daddy. I'm sorry I'm sorry"

I don't think I've ever seen him that upset. He was shaking. He got all his clothes and was trying to put his own pants on, falling over, crying, collecting his towel, trying to get out the front door, looking for the car out the window.

I made DH come back and get him.

DH thinks this the reason DS1 is the way he is. That he needed to suck it up.

Is he right?

I'm sorry to say @emptythelitterbox, but your approach would simply not have worked with my child with ASD. At all. We did try because the grandparents here also told us we were doing things all wrong. It made things so much worse.
Their criticism really hurt and didn't help, quite the opposite. Flexibility was key with our DC, and professional guidance confirmed that.

I wouldn’t do it with my NT child, having seen the impact on my NT husband

I didn’t/don’t give in to tantrums, ‘no means no’, but actually think you were right here. I had something similar happen to me when I was a young child and it was traumatising. Abandonment shouldn’t be used as a punishment. You were right to pick up on this being distress not a tantrum. The fact your husband came back for him will make him more secure.

PP mention parenting course to you - I'd really suggest find some and you go on some.

I kept saying "DS1 let's go downstairs and have breakfast" but he was getting more and more irrate.

Why- if it's not working why keep saying anything it ends up as background noise and contributes to you being ignored.

Be short ie short and very clear words - ie stop- and clear and firm - no (that doesn't mean shouting but there is a authoritative tone to strive for)- and if that doesn't work move on to next technique distraction - lets gets some food - or can you beat me down the stairs - make a fun game - try something else and try and head off meltdowns.

Your posts give impression of being verbose - using more complex language than necessary to a small child - and perhaps being tentative wanting to explain and cajole rather than issue clear firm instructions.

I think you clearly have a harder to parent than average child - the nursery clearly have concerns - and PP mentioned hunger being a trigger and DS had that in droves - you may well need to look for triggers and avoid.

Once DD1 got worked up - and there did seem to be difference between tantrums not getting her own way and meltdowns when all we could do was leave her somewhere safe and quite - and let her calm down - anything else prolonged it something MIL drove us mad by ignoring - she'd hover and make it all worse.

There are SEN boards on here - full of parents with their own hard won experiences - may well be worth posting there for better tips than may work with your child.

I can see how it comes across as harsh but sometimes natural consequences can't be dialled down, and some children only make the connection when it impacts them this much. I can see how it would have been a pain for you to work through it but Id have supported the decision and seen how things panned out next week when it's time to get ready for swimming again.

I do think it's never too early for children to learn to decentre themselves.

Never too early

to a crying newborn “it’s not all about you, you know”

What impact did it have on him?

His parent was probably locking him alone for long periods of time.

I'm talking about staying in the same room. Time out maximum of 3 minutes.

Does is he better at listening to his father?

Why, are you worried it had a long term negative impact on your own children? It probably didn’t. It did on my husband, we go by the experience we have.

Your 2nd example is a bit different. He got something in his head, logic along with determination of a 3 year old. Perhaps he didn’t want to leave his brother out, who knows. You have been given some good advice, like distraction or simple A/B choice that doesn’t involve a stand off between the two of you. All children are different so we can only parent the one(s) we’ve got, it seems like you have a good instinct but need to build up your own confidence (which the parenting course might help). It is challenging when the other parent has different ideas as well, but sign of partnership in your OP, although your DH complained, he did listen as come back for DS.

What impact did it have on him?

This made me feel really sad for your DS. He is still only little. I would have made DH come home too

There's no easy or one way fits all in these situations.

I remember at 3 walking to school as a different animal every day for about a year as it was the only thing that would get ds out the house 😔

He didn't get his own way , you kept calm moving him would have caused a bigger meltdown and woken his brother. Unfortunately when dealing with a small child who probably has asd you spend lots of time dealing with situations like this

With the pda I learnt not to ask directly that he do something, so for example I'd say I wonder where ds shoes are? I wonder if we can find them? Or who's shoes are these? They don't fit on my feet , while trying to put them on and hoping he'd have a go next!

Read up on pda , you might find some things that work for you and ds

From a mother of a child who has asd
And a grandmother of a child with asd because us grandmother's know it all obviously 🙄

Why do you need to know?

Dear God, he's THREE. He's practically a baby. And lots of kids are in their own little world at three years old. All I know is, I couldn't have left him in such distress. He's not old enough to process such drastic (for him) consequences. If he was seven or eight, it would be different.

I understand you not wanting to say if it's embarrassing.
So nevermind.

@emptythelitterbox you clearly haven't got a clue about additional needs, now sssh!

I bf, co slept and baby carried all mine - but I also had three and half years between my three children and was by myself a lot of the time.

There were times I needed to get places at set times - and needed like Op to balance more than one child's needs.

So 3 isn't too young to expect them to understand instructions and to get dressed- though OP and her DH may need different techniques to get him there.

EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall pda examples are things I've done- (not the animal noises we did counting or occasionally singing) - but breaking task down - time checks could have all avoided the stand off situation.

But three is not a baby and not too soon to have some expectations - they just need to be reasonable and getting dressed is - it will be expected in PE in reception which isn't that far away - it just a skill that need building up and structuring in such as way OP child can succeed at task.

I think it is hard for people to realise how really physically powerful a three-year boy can be. Most young children can be physically restrained fairly easily without a lot of force or need for extreme self-protection.
His intense reactions and violence make all the things you have described this morning much harder to deal with and contain than an ordinary but difficult tantrum.
You need as much professional help as you can get and so does your DS. And as soon as possible. Easier said than done but you need to flag this up everywhere - GP, health visitor, child support services etc. And insist you are taken seriously. This is not your fault.
Ps: There are some schools of thought that high levels of Kryptoperrole causing a biochemical imbalance can affect emotional function. Apparently it is often high in DC with ASD behaviours.

Not embarrassing, I just don’t feel like going into it in depth

Really interesting that you’re prepared to use manipulative language (and possibly an attempt at belittling?) over this though. Why does what I have said bother you so much? It almost certainly has nothing to do with how your own family has turned out, I very clearly said this was based on one particular family member’s experience that influenced our behaviour towards our own children, and you are taking it very personally

Maybe you’re my MIL?

Your response is completely wrong for a child or person with ASD or Autism. You are not helping your child,

Wow!

You really think that would work with a SEN child?

Hint: It won't

NannyOgg, you would be amazed how SEN children’s behaviour can improve using firm structures, cognitive behavioural techniques and so on. People seem to think SEN is a licence to do what you like. It’s not, and good manners and consideration can be taught and should be insisted upon from all children.

A child psychologist or qualified SENCO would have first sat down with the child after the crying, and explained what the behaviour problem was and why there needed to be consequences.

Then next - and this is very important - the message needs to be reiterated a few times in the run up to the next swimming session, along with what the behaviour expectations are. You need clear, easy to understand steps for achieving the required behaviour, so the child can understand how to get it right.

Then the child needs to be given a chance to operationalise the new behaviour, and when this happens successfully (even if it’s only 80% right or so) the praise needs to be incredibly effusive. This reinforces the required behaviour. It helps if parents subsequently spend something like five times as long being positive and approving about the desired behaviour than the initial negative incident.

If you give in half way through, the message you are giving to the child is that you are not united or serious about behaviour training. This does not help the child, who needs clarity and a feeling of predictably and safety. Therefore you must see any sanctions through.

You really think that would work with a SEN child?
Hint: It won't

To be fair it doesn't say 'it's for a ND child' and to be even more fair the OP doesn't know if her child is sen or not either.

It's all speculation so far based on information given, and everyone will look at it differently depending on their own experiences. At this point being firmer and more consistent might work or it might not, only the op will know.

I've worked with children for over 40yrs and the behaviour OP describes isn't outside the norm for many NT 3yr olds. What is clear is that both parents need to try and come to a point where they are trying the same strategies, not fighting against each other's.