Granddaughter's family taking advantage? Annual visits funded by me!

[ParsleyorCoriander]

Name changed as this is rather personal. Please help me with my dilemma!

I have an 8 y.o. granddaughter ('Alice') who lives with her mum and extended family abroad. My son/her father has limited contact (complex reasons) but I am paying financial support on his behalf and visit 2-3 times a year (staying in hotels - they would not have room to host me). I get on well with Alice on a 121 basis and spend a lot of time together when I’m visiting.

This year I paid for her and her mum to visit me for a month. I paid for flights, transportation, food and eating out, excursions, everything, and they stayed at my house. In total it cost me over £3000. All this was accepted with good grace by her mum, but barely a thank you. She also made very little effort to interact.

I have always noticed signs of Alice being spoiled. This became blatantly obvious during their stay. Wherever we went she asked for and was invariably bought ‘stuff’. Lots of cuddly toys, books, games, plus trinkets and plastic tat. Food would be ordered and she often barely touched it, without remonstration from her mum. Her mum also lets her get away with being moody and borderline rude, such as ignoring questions, whining/moaning/whinging and not saying please/thank you. Her mother also spent serious money on stuff for herself - but offered to pay for a meal just once.

I love my granddaughter dearly and most of the time she is absolutely lovely but all this has left a somewhat sour note. Her mum keeps talking about “when we come next summer…” and has said that she expects these visits to become a yearly event, with me clearly expected to fund it. What is more, her mum and dad have stated they want to come too! I'm not sure how they are going to fund this trip as they are not very well off.

Yes, I could theoretically afford these visits, but we’d be talking several thousands each year. Ultimately it would mean that I’d be taking money away from my own DC and other potential grandchildren they might have. Also, I'm not sure I would be comfortable on an emotional level to host them every year as we have very little in common.

I feel uncomfortable and that I'm being taken advantage of, and that I need to say something now to manage future expectations. I’m a natural unassertive, conflict avoidant people pleaser and this is causing me a great deal of anxiety. How would you handle this?

Like others I think you are doing enough by visiting her two or three times a year. It's not about whether you can afford to put people up for a month, it's about whether you want to.

It will be an awkward conversation but not as unpleasant as another month of hosting next year, with add-ons!

You sound like you have been very generous already and it's fine to pull back a little and do things differently in future.

Ah sorry missed that. Didn’t read every post (no time for all that) and must have missed it in the first post.

Who knew people sometimes make mistakes?

Thanks for pointing it out so kindly though, Ms Snippy.

Pp I would bet the son is in prison.

That would explain him not being there, not able to offer financial support, and Alice living in a different country.

Op continue to visit in Alice's country but as pp said, next time she can come alone when she's ten, or you could pay for Alice's flight but not her mum's.

Say something vague like you're a bit worried, your investments have tanked. Impossible to offer more. Of course they are welcome any time but you wouldn't be able to pay over and above X,y,z, hope they understand, understand they are bound to be disappointed, just as you are. It was great to see them.

But we apparently have time to read your irrelevant posts?

Just click ‘See All’ and read OP’s posts, or everyone else’s.

I think I agree with this, it so depends on the situation. If he’s in a coma that’s one thing, mental health or addiction I’d have limited sympathy and think he can do something.

Dear Mary

I hope you are well and forgive me for bringing this up by email but I thought it best to bring the issue of trips up now and manage expectations and then we can talk it through next week?

Last year it was lovely to see you and Alice and I hope you had a relaxing break here. Whilst I was happy to see you, and cover the cost as a treat - I get the feeling you are expecting these to become an annual break covered by me. Whilst I am happy to cover all accommodation costs and food costs if you and Alice stay with me - and I will cover the cost of flights for you and Alice - I can not cover lots of meals and out and purchases. You would of course be welcome to stay and I would cover flights and food when you are with me - but you could bring your own spending money

I also could not stretch to accommodating your additional family members as I can not cover the cost or have the room here to put them up / or I would also be happy to accommodate and cook for your parents if they wished to come but I can not cover their flights.

I just want to manage expectations in a way that offers you support to a level that I am ok to provide.

what do you think?

I have other commitments with my other children and also need to bare in mind that equal amount of money should be given to their children in due course.

With regard the support I am currently paying on behalf on x I will continue this as long as I can afford it and it is irrelevant if you visit me or not - I would want you to as I really want a relationship with yourself and Alice - and your visits are lovely. The two things are separate.

I think you are doing an amazing job as a great mother to Alice - if you always want to consider Alice coming to visit me on my own - I would be happy to discuss that too. It might be you don’t think she is old enough yet which I totally understand and of course I love seeing you to Mary!

would you like to have a think about what you might be like to do in 2023 and then we can manage everyone’s expectations and make sure we are all clear?
all my love
granny

Yes, this.

Of course you don't have to pay for them to visit you. If dgd isn't allowed to visit alone I would say you just visit her.

I actually can’t believe how many people keep telling OP to just ‘take the GD back with her’ or ‘book for GD to go alone’. Who would actually let an 8 year old fly ALONE or stay for weeks with a grandmother she sees a few times a year?
The majority of reasonable people would not be okay with that.

You sound like an amazing grandma but a month is 2 weeks too long.

I used to be very afraid of confrontation but many years of mumsnetting has cured me of that!

Like other people have said, you have to work out what works best for you. Consider also how your other grandchildren feel/will feel if they see you spending considerably more in terms of money and time, on Alice. The last thing you need is resentment among your wider family.

In your situation I think I would tell DIL that as much as you love being with them, the arrangement doesn't work for you and therefore you will be visiting them in the future.

OP how much do your visits cost?

I agree.

I'm not sure why mum is expected to financially sort out GD visiting you. Particularly if you are correct in thinking mum doesn't really like you. She's only doing it to benefit her daughter.

Also the flying alone is unreasonable. I wouldn't allow my 8YO to fly unattended to visit someone she only sees a few times a year.

Any email laying out costs sounds very odd.

Just agree to what you want to pay for -flights for Alice and mum to stay 2 weeks with you.

Then you control the days out. Sone expensive days out together, some days where all do own thing. Eat mostly at home.

No need to spell all that out a year in advance, it just looks very ungracious.

Difficult situation when you want to maintain contact with the child.
You could use the fact that the other grandparents want to visit to your advantage - that there will be four (presumably?) of them travelling together means its not practical or sustainable for you to put them all up at home so they will need to arrange accommodation for themselves. Then, since the DiL loves London so much (presumably that's where you are) you could make the suggestion that you will meet/join them all for some days out/meals/etc, but also that the DiL may want to spend some time out and around London enjoying herself, with or without her parents, and you can have Alice alone then.
So you'd be with all of them less but consequently paying for less, and you'd also get some alone time with Alice.

But that's life for those of us who don't live in the same country as their family. We didn't see my family for 3 years during covid (closed borders for most of the time), or my inlaws for 18 months. We don't have the luxury of seeing our family every weekend or even every school holiday.

And yes, my children take flights with their grandparents without me present and stay in another country without me regularly (covid aside).

What has that got to do with my post?
I lug DC on a flight between countries to visit grandparents but I would still never let an 8 year old fly alone “across the world” or let a child of that age stay for weeks with a family I haven’t had much to do with.

Simple, do you want a relationship with your granddaughter or not? It's not going to come through your son so it's solely down to her mother. If it were me, I'd be moving heaven and earth to see my own flesh and blood but you cone across as resentful.
If you think your gd I'd spoiled and rude, then demonstrate how not to be, do things that don't cost money together. I think yabu.

So do I, and mine don't until they're ready to - certainly not at 8!

It's absolutely not normal for anyone I know to send an 8 year old as an unaccompanied minor on a 21 hour flight (especially to visit the parents of their absent since birth parent).

Children who travel with grandparents generally only do so where the parent who's bringing them up has an absolutely trusting decade+ relationship with those grandparents.

This!! Most people have ignored the comment about GD living across the world as well, so we can assume a long haul flight and not a quick jaunt to say Europe

I have two seven year olds. I would be completely happy for one of them to fly alone (eight hours) to visit for a week or two with their grandparents that they only see about once a year (but have a lovely relationship). The other seven year old I wouldn't even consider allowing it. It all depends on the personalities of the children and the quality of the relationships, and the child's mother is the best person to make that decision.

@ParsleyorCoriander A delicate balance between facilitation of contact to build enduring resilient relationships teetering over into being taken for granted which may cast gloom over some special times.

‘Yes, I could theoretically afford these visits, but we’d be talking several thousands each year. Ultimately it would mean that I’d be taking money away from my own DC and other potential grandchildren they might have.’

Theoretically nope. You can only afford so much & no more. Within that nominal bucket of what you may afford, you prioritise & allocate as best you can. So you do not have thousands of pounds to dress up a simple family visit. You have a family who may grow with more grandchildren & wisely you have some financial preferences about your children now.

You are kindly acting as your DS’s financial proxy & I assume that you are sending regular maintenance on his behalf? If so, you are helping in real tangible terms & you are due some respect & consideration.

You visit & stay in a hotel as they do not have room for you? None of them? Can Mummy not take the sofa for a few days so that you have a bed? Can Alice not bunk up with Mum so that you have a small room with single bed?

@ParsleyorCoriander you have partially brought this on yourself. You have given the impression that you have money to burn. You stay in a hotel several times over & do not query them putting you up. You have Alice & her mum as guests & spend time/money on excursions with repeated discretionary spending.

The time has come to cut your cloth & their expectations, & as you rightly point out now rather than closer to the time.

Ask now to stay with Alice & her mum next time you go over, suggest that a bed is made free for you for your stay. Make assertions on your own behalf, you are Alice’s grandmother, an important member of the family.

If a hotel is the only option, reduce or shorten your visits & make clear it is because of money.

If they do stay with you next year, it is day trips using vouchers, home made sandwiches & refillable water flask, & no spending on junk. Encourage Alice & her mum to go out for their own jaunts at their own expense. Meals are at home & btw Alice Mummy, here it is polite for adult guests to treat their hosts & this is where I would like to be up taken…

It is OK to make it clear that if you stay in hotel when you visit them the same principle applies to the rest of the family if they come over at the same time.

At 8yo, Alice like all children needs to be told no to demands for what she wants when she wants & adult spending in junk. Remember ‘money doesn’t grow on trees’.

Whatever the complexity of the situation about your son, Alice’s father, it is NOT for you to explicate his guilt or obligations. It is your kindness & your goodwill, & there are limits - your own boundaries & your own budget.

You have DC & in due course hopefully more grandchildren, Alice is not the chance you have at being a grandmother. Please don’t over spend ££ or emotionally invest to your detriment.

Hopefully in times to come, Alice will come over by herself to stay with her cousins & lovely, kind, generous grandmother.

Keep the contact going, keep up the visits, you can make this work for you, Alice & her mother. Just a few adjustment of expectations required.

They only came because you invited them. If you don't invite them, then they won't come. However if you do want to spend time with her, it might be easier to go over there. I'd make the effort either way, otherwise you'll end up drifting apart.

Because for whatever the reason, parenting has been solely left to the mother. Why does the son get a free pass?

Soz, that should be expiate guilt etc.