Sat here crying about DD’s behaviour

[Cantfeelmuchthesedays]

I can’t take much more of it.
She woke up at 6 am, shouting she wanted to go downstairs, kicking me in my back.
Asking me to help her to do things and then getting angry as I’m doing it wrong. Constantly reacting and shouting and screaming. Following the dog around annoying her.
She’s not very pleasant anymore, at all and it’s causing huge problems between Dh and I, he’s stressed at work then comes home to shouting and screaming and taking ages at bedtime to sleep etc. Weekends are hell also.
We don’t have much patience anymore and I’m starting to dread waking up, my only peace is when I’m asleep.
I just don’t know what to do and if any of this is normal and a phase and will pass or something else. Taking her out is a nightmare, spending the day at home for 12 hours is worse.
As awful as it sounds, I miss my old life so very much, I don’t enjoy motherhood anymore and don’t know what happened to my lovely girl, I don’t know if we’re to blame or if it’s normal and we’re not emotionally strong enough.
Will this just be our lives now

Outbursts, defiance (I initially just thought strong willed but it was more than that like total opposition), lashing out, very hyper (but not ADHD - sensory related), sensitivity to clothing, became fussy with foods (again sensory), rude to us, anxiety especially in social settings, repetitively annoying siblings/pets…
SEN organisations and family support helped us. We were able to set boundaries/work with our child as opposed to against them. They also helped offer support for self regulating - strategies for calming down etc - although that can still be an issue now as it’s very hard to rationalise with my child when they’re highly triggered. Also OT techniques to help them regulate. This is a very useful guide which you might find helpful OP www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/lho/corknorthlee/therapy/paediatric-occupational-therapy/sensory-processing.pdf

We had no early issues either with development OP. Our child was confident and outgoing etc then all of a sudden changed and displayed social anxiety and behaviours became apparent.

@Itslookinggood

YYY to the frustration of the 4yo brain going faster than the ability to make/ create / accomplish fine motor tasks.

I have a 4 yo at school. Im experiencing the same stuff

Ive read a few threads about 4 yo being difficult

You're not alone

Because if I didn't want children in bed with me, that's what I'd do. And at 4 (unless poorly) I'd want them in their own room.

And just because people don't have children, it doesn't mean they don't know anything if they've worked with them. She wasn't just a random passer-by. (And by the way, I do)

I might not agree with everything she did, but I don't have a problem with that one

@Cantfeelmuchthesedays

Why did you feel you had to say, "I'll just put your dinner down here", when you were going to help DD with the milk container?

It comes across as the subservient comment a nervous kitchen maid would make to the Cook.

You can put a plate down and make your way to the fridge at your own speed without an explanation, and especially without using the word "just".

When DD starts getting worked up about stickers or some other activity, place a hand gently on her shoulder and ask her about her feelings. Ask her if she would like to get up and do a little shaking off of the frustration.

Taylor Swift's "Shake it Off" is a good song to play for a shaking off session, as is "Shake Your Sillies Out" by The Wiggles.

If she doesn't know the word frustration, you need to teach her. If she won't respond, then tell her you are ready to talk about her feelings whenever she is, get up and start doing something else. Say that gently, not as if you've taken the hump. You need to convey to her that you have confidence in her ability to express her feelings and that you're eager to hear what she's feeling.

Sitting with her while and trying to intervene more than once while she gets more and more frazzled is not what a preschool teacher would do. I suspect she is comparing the different leadership styles she sees at home and at school, and that you are (1) on the receiving end of all her confusion and anxiety about school, and (2) comparing badly with a teacher who is able to shrug off her moods or address them more authoritatively.

Think of yourself as a leader in your home, and remind yourself that your child needs the security of knowing that someone older and wiser is in charge.

Keep a leadership diary where you note your own feelings every day. You can share this with your H, and invite him to do a diary of his own too. The two of you can start to develop a leadership style and work together.

@Cantfeelmuchthesedays no one can give you a definitive answer. It could be something it could be nothing. Yes there are things in her behaviour that can be signs of Autism or ADHD or sensory processing disorder or anxiety. Yes these signs are not always evident as a child. It's common for Autistic girls to get diagnosed later than boys.
It's common for Autistic DC who mask well to explode after school, this doesn't mean she's Autistic, just that she has some behaviours that might be Autistic. What the meltdowns show you is that she's overwhelmed. NT children can find starting preschool exhausting and overwhelming

@Moonlightdust What age did she change and was it all of a sudden? What signs of social anxiety did she all of a sudden show. How did you know the hyperactivity was not adhd but sensory related? Sorry for all the questions, is your child ASD?

Posted too soon. Tiredness can drastically effect a child's ability to regulate their emotions and some children struggle with feeling big emotions they can't yet express at this age.

Have a read around about ASD and SPD and anxiety in children and the techniques that can help. A different structure to the morning or the afternoon might help. She might benefit from some work around transitions or a visual routine and being told each day what's going to happen before it does.

You said she used to be very energetic, my little guy who's very energetic needs movement to regulate. Being active after preschool might help. Some children need to zone out from the world, I use screens around transitions a lot because that's what works for my children. Honestly there's endless things that 'might' help, your best bet as the person who knows your daughter is to start reading and trying things that sound to YOU like they might help her.

@mathanxiety I was explaining it to her as it was hot, it wasn’t in a nervous way, but I knew exactly how she’d get…and she did, v insistent and shouting and screaming at me to do it, to which I replied that I wouldn’t do anything when spoken to like that. I walked into the living room and sat down and she came in with the milk and asked me but was all angry and agitated inside, I could see it, she then sort of threw it at me/on the sofa

My DD was a nightmare from 3.5 to 4.5 YO
Her tantrums were monumental if she didn't get her way, to the point of vomiting several times after so much crying.

If started to bet better at 4.5YO, and she is so much better! A completely different child, she still has her difficult moments but nothing too bad or comparable.

I think that when you get angry there is a vicious circle difficult to break, as she will get more angry because you are angry. I noticed that with my DD. The more calm you can keep and positive, the more likely it is you can descalate the situation. But it is not easy, I know...

@LunaAndHerMoonDragons But if she just has anxiety, what can she be anxious about at 4 😔she was so happy before

Sometimes, anxiety doesn’t necessarily have a cause. Or it could even be something the child can’t express because they don’t know how to.

I do personally think that very bright children can sometimes be more prone to anxiety than others. Because they have more capacity to think about stuff. At 4, it’s still not old enough to have learned to manage emotions or even reason these things out.

This

As per the other reply anxiety doesn't necessarily have a cause. At this age they're unlikely to be able to express that they feel anxious let alone why. DDs started to get obvious around then, seperation anxiety, feeling like she doesn't fit in (turns out she's Autistic), not understanding social interactions, not wanting to get things wrong, a perfectionist. This all came to light much later and partially through a lot of work I've done with her and the two of us with a therapist. It helped that I have anxiety myself so I could recognise the effects in her. It's part of who DD is, she's more sensitive, an overthinker, a perfectionist, all traits that can lead to anxiety.

@Cantfeelmuchthesedays

The milk conversation was all about the milk, but there was clearly something else going on that hasn't been discussed.

Could you try to address DD's feelings?

"Are you feeling frustrated about the wait?"
"Is it hard for you to want something and to need help getting it?"
"It's OK to feel impatient and thirsty, but it's still important to say 'please'".

@Cantfeelmuchthesedays She was constipated quite badly for a while and behaviour was worse, she was put on a version of Movicol/Miralax and was horrendous, the first few days on it she started hitting us and jumping around the bedroom,. Doctor assured us it was fine but I took her off after around 11 weeks as had seen a change in her. It’s now 3 months off it and we’re having these problems, I don’t know if it’s the issue, but I read it strips the stomach etc. I’ve found natural ways to help her poo and she’s been regular and not having tummy pains, which were so happy about, but now this behaviour has come along. I’d say before the whole constipation thing she was so different and life was very different.

It sounds like you have pinpoited the change.

Has she been x-rayed for an impacted bowel? The dosage of Movicol has to be very particular to treat it properly. They can still be regular and be impacted.

@Manamala She had an impacted bowel, but at the last appointment was told she was clear. She doesn’t seem to be having the stomach aches and gas anywhere near as much (her behaviour was v hyper and more challenging in a different way, so I could see she had stomach ache)
That seems to have eased but the behaviour is there

@mathanxiety When she gets into that zone, it’s so difficult to even talk to her as she shouts over and gets more and more impatient, it’s really stressful as there’s no need and it just feels like she needs to calm
right down

She needs coregulation first to calm, she can't take anything in until then, as her brain has basically gone offline. She needs you to help her coregulate.

What happens if you just stop trying to talk or reason with her. Just wait it out. Sat calmly "I know you are frustrated and angry. When you stop yelling at me I'll get the milk". Then you can just sit down, take some deep breaths for yourself. You can repeat it to her a few time (not constantly as that would be antagonizing for anyone).

I also used a little mantra I'd to say to myself "This is not an emergency. Stay calm" or something similar to help me not lose it!

@Notjusta I do that but it makes her angrier as she wants it doing straightaway. I’ve had to end up walking away

She was calmer this morning, but even just now sat here after her breakfast, she was watching Milkshake and I asked something about the programme, just a to be interested question and she got angry. It’s like a moody teenager or something, is this normal at 4

I think now it’s also to do with your energy around her. Somehow I think you didn’t ask this question like you’d have asked it months ago, that you asked it maybe somewhat fearful of her reaction, etc.

it’s been proven cats and dogs can pick up on owner’s negative energy, even if it’s not directed to them, and they will act accordingly.

people do this too, there are also studies on this with children.

it’s not your fault, and it would be hard to put out feelings on being relaxed, etc, while you”re actually tense. But your DD will pick it up and hence her reaction is normal.

just something to keep in mind that while on paper her reaction looks like too much, there is a context for it.

When she gets into that zone, it’s so difficult to even talk to her as she shouts over and gets more and more impatient, it’s really stressful as there’s no need and it just feels like she needs to calm right down

Why are you trying to talk to her.

The hardest thing I find is leaving them. They need space sometimes to sort out these emotions and issues themselves. Indeed it is important for them to be able to figure it out themselves.

Walking away (as long as you know she is safe) and leaving her too it is much better than talk to her and escalating.

I have learnt this very much the hard way - and the same holds true for teenagers. Sometimes when it becomes overwhelming being left alone is what you need. Not someone talking at you

I asked something about the programme, just a to be interested question and she got angry

Why did you ask though? She didnt need you to be interested she needed to be able to calmly watch her programme.

How many adults would when watching something would want to stop and answer a question.

Each of these stages of development is about taking a step forward to independence and that is where your daughter is. Starting preschool and finding her way as a child not a toddler. And this involves you taking a step back

Drop all questions and just comment. It can be really hard to do, but it encourages communication & also reduces demands.