To not understand the nastiness that being a housewife provokes 2

[Alondra]

Apologies for making a second part to this thread but I feel strongly about this issue.

Topgub

Possibly because there aren't any benefits

Few countries have a government system caring about women and children. The majority of our governments don't care if all have to work for a pittance to pay mortgage, bills and food when children are small because average couples need both wages. A system where nursery fees are stratospheric and eating half an average wage, and worse still, because parents working full time, making an average pay to be able to survive, have few serious tax concessions. Those tax concessions go to multinationals.

It's a system that only cares about productivity attached to $. If you are an engineer with projects worth a million dollars, your salary will be minimum 15% of that money annually. If you are a carer or a parent, there is no quoted money attached to your work, so you are in a low wage or no wage at all.

A woman with two kids working full time for an average salary has not gained much from my mother’s time. Working full time, taking care of the kids when they are home and doing the lion share of housework and rarely free time at all.

With housing costs, bills and health systems collapsing, I really fear for women in the next few years. We will get the short straw as we've always done, but it'll be a plus if, at least, we don't turn on each other.

@AMorningstar

My comment was clear.

No, you're not right. Idk what you want me to say, I can't prove my identity to you and I don't care to play these ridiculous games. I could post a photo of my cesarean scar, or a picture of me and my husband together, but to be honest I don't see why I should have to and feel no need to justify myself to you. If you want to disbelieve me, be my guest. It doesn't change my reality and the fact that I've got a wonderful husband and family. However much that upsets you.🤷🏻‍♀️

So you do think women like me should be sacrificed for "the greater good" then?

@AMorningstar

I answered your question

You're dodging it. Say it with your chest.

@AMorningstar

I'm not dodging anything.

My comment was clear and I answered your question

If you don't understand it then maybe reread?

Humour me. Do you think women like me should be sacrificed for the greater good, yes or no

@AMorningstar

I have no interest in humouring you.

You have your answer

To those who think this resentment towards SAHM or WM is just a female issue, men are just the same.
With a surprisingly high number of my friends, I found I literally couldn't say or organise anything without snidey comments.
Arranging a drink on a Friday evening - A. its alright for you "not having worked all week", "it's alright for you" "I care about my kids" and want to spend quality time with them at weekends
These was genuinely said to me.
Ofcourse I have many other working mates who hold no such resentment, we just laugh that the grass is always greener.
Anyone who has been a full time mum or dad especially to v.little ones (I have 3) knows it's bloody hard work, can be v.boring and you never get a break.
My solution to those who are resentful either way - f*ck em, don't even answer the phone to em

It’s misogynistic because you are completely passing over the structural gender dynamics at play. Statistically men are significantly more likely to have affairs than women: there are a whole range of structural gender inequalities that play into these dynamics (and I don’t ehave the time because I’m on my way to work lol). Often women are left most vulnerable after these affairs because women are more likely to be structurally and financially dependent on their partners (irony?). You are playing into a narrative that justifies male cheating behaviour and blames it on women- because these women who get cheated on are so insufferable and don’t know how to keep a man (including because they are too busy at work instead of devoting time to sex, cooking and personal grooming). The are nothing like you, the perfect domestic (/sex) goddess, living in marital bliss.

@Daddybegood

All parents are full time and if you never get a break how are you managing a drink on a Friday night?

Gender dynamics are a cop out. People are individuals and that's what matters here. Deferring to your "group" as an excuse is cowards behaviour. Hold men and women to the same standard, women are not delicate flowers who can't make our own decisions.

If being a SAHM mum is a negative, then don't do it? If it makes you feel dependent then don't do it! Society is made up of many women who all maybe want different things. Women who actively choose to be SAHMs are 'society.' They are as real and as valid as anybody else and their voice matters too.

It's like saying that because a large number of people find their paid jobs boring or stressful, then paid working is a bad thing per se. You would never say that people who enjoy their jobs are perpetuating a system that makes the majority miserable, would you? Why then say that SAHM who are happy are perpetuating others being miserable?

I think if people feel disempowered as a SAHM mum, then they likely won't be the SAHM for long! The truth is, most SAHMs are really not all about doom in the gloom the way people try to paint them on here. If people tell you they are happy, just listen without prejudice. Listen and hear them. It's all ok. Society reflects us all and so it should be varied. Unless you want a Marxist, totalitarian regime where everyone works exactly the same and no choice allowed within families and that's it. I don't want that.

💯

@AMorningstar

Then why are you so scared of different view points?

Any time it's been suggested that the sahm role is damaging to society you start bleating on about being sacrificed and being barred from doing it.

As a non delicate flower who can make her own decisions it shouldn't matter to you.

No one can stop you doing what you want.

Sexism and patriarchy are a myth. Its just a complete coincidence you whole heartedly conform to gender dynamics.

@Topgub my point was that I wouldn't comment to my working mates if they were arranging a drink on a Friday night. If I couldn't go I wouldn't, no need for me to snarky although i am sure there would be some SAHD who would take the opportunity to make their point too, but I felt the comments I received when I tried to arrange one were resentful digs.
My wider point is that men & women are both the same, and to the ones who are: f*ck em

Yes, only women who want to girlboss are the ones who made their own decisions and everyone else is just brainwashed. What a feminist and non misogynistic take.

I'm asking you what the logical conclusion of your viewpoint is. I don't personally care that you don't like it, ans you can't actually stop me from doing it. But saying things like "a few enjoying it is not a good enough reason", what's the end game with a view like that?

@zeven

People have said exactly that about work.

That because some people are stressed every one must be a corporate wage slave.

No one has said everyone should be the same or shouldn't live the lives they want.

They should

It still doesn't remove the harmful impacts on an unequal society. And that isn't ok. Especially when there are no true benefits.

I do think it benefits society but the thing is - I don't really care whether it does. It benefits me. I owe society nothing. Neither do you. Neither do any of us. We shouldn't have to be miserable for some wider abstract concept of society.

@AMorningstar

The end goal is equality. Obviously.

And a society where everyone contributes where they can.

Not one full of selfish individuals who only take what they can from others

What! You mean you don't buy into the regressive gender stereotypes that men are chest-thumping, territory-pissing 'providers' and heads of the household, and that women are gentle, caring nurturers in gingham overalls who scrub the floor, cook the food, and have no aspirations whatsoever toward self-sufficiency and individual development?

You are far too sensible for this thread. Begone.

And being a sahm absolutely does not benefit society.

Only the individual and their male oh. If they have 1

@Daddybegood

Yes I think not working is fairly widely unacceptable in society

Probably for good reason.

That being said I do think much more should be done to encourage dad's to do an equal share of parenting

Depends what you define as benefitting society. I feel like your ideal society and my ideal society would look very different