To wonder why some men have children at all?

[TheRossatron]

When they have absolutely zero interest in family life? I see it on here constantly. I don't mean men who accidentally get someone pregnant and shirk responsibility... I mean men who enter into a relationship with a woman, propose, get married and try for babies... then end up with two toddlers and a presumption that they can dump everything onto the wife and fuck off out all weekend every weekend to play golf? Or get smashed in the pub? Or sit playing video games all day? I myself loathe the thought of family life - I just wouldn't want to be tied to anyone and would feel suffocated and resentful. So why on earth don't they just stay single and childless?! Baffles me.

(Disclaimer - I know there are loads of really good men out there!)

I think that they copy the behaviour of their own fathers.

@Digforvictories better the idiot you know is a valid point but this is what OP is saying. Men know this too, it isn't fair on the kids. If it means having 1 less child or stopping at one to reduce the no of shit fathers on the whole then women need to do it. I get that starting again and having kids with someone else could equally go wrong also.

I think a lot of men, women included, underestimate the huge impact a baby/child will have on their lives and subsequently get resentful or just check out altogether. The issue is that unlike a new golf kit, you can't store kids in the cupboard when you're bored of them. That said, even men who go in all guns blazing can fall to this, and deep down a lot of women probably wish they'd never had kids but it's not very acceptable by societies standards for women to leave their babies.

They have a drive to reproduce, that isn't the same as a desire to parent actively.

I think a lot of men improve with older kids.

Try reading my post again. I clearly said that I referring to women who chose to have kids or continue to have kids when they know their partner are useless. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Let's face it, the vast majority of men are on the sub-par spectrum when it comes to fatherhood. And they get away with it because society lets them off the hook, preferring to bash women instead.

I think there’s a lot in that.

My DH was widowed before we met and he was a single parent to a young DS. He’s still, 20 years later, quite staggered by the way people - especially women - treated him.

It was like he was some sort of super hero for managing a toddler on his own with a lot of family help. There was a woman in a support group he went to who lost her husband on the same day he lost his wife, he found the contrast between how they were treated by others a massive eye-opener. She was solo parenting two young children yet was seen as meant or making a big deal if she complained it was tough. Whereas he was a super hero for braving a toddler group.

www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/relationships/brand-new-father-takes-up-brand-new-hobby-20220218217569

Brand new father takes up brand new hobby

My ex wanted kids because he wanted someone to leave all his assets to. I don't think he actually properly considered how much more a child is than just an heir. I didn't have children with him because there were a whole host of red flags that indicated it'd be a terrible idea.

Exactly this. There's a current thread running on here where the OP has 4 children. FOUR. With a man who wants a day to himself. How did you get to 4 before realising this 🤷🏽‍♀️

DH and I are child free by choice. I get a LOT of stick for it - the typical "you'll change your mind when your older (I'm 38!) / meet the right man (I'm married!)" bullshit. I hate it.

But even worse, my DH gets a lot of "wow how did you swing that?!" in tones of wonder - these are married men with kids already! Luckily I'm not there when this is said or I'd struggle to restrain myself from pointing out it was entirely their decision to have children, I'm pretty sure none were raped by their wives! But imagine feeling confident enough that obviously no men actually want children to say that when you have them yourself, in a group who also mostly have them. And they're right in that there seems to be no backlash from the other dads.

You see it all the time on here. Women who continue to have child number two or even three with utterly shit and useless men.

I don’t feel sorry for them in the slightest. They need to own their decisions.

I also agree that many men are at best ambivalent about having children, and many will just go along with it for a quiet life.

Also, it’s hilarious the amount of women on MN who have contraception ‘failures’. and accidentally fall pregnant. Yeah right!

@TootMootZoot

Future faking also refers to promising to do better next time.

When you have that first baby you're kinda trapped but maybe, all things being equal, your man isn't setting off enough alarm bells to make you up sticks and leave. Plus you're still committed to your ideal family and you don't have another option for the role of husband and father. So you plough on to have baby number 2. It's only then that the scales fall from your eyes. But by that point you're looking at managing two on your own if you separate.

And if you complain about how shit it is you get comments like yours.

My friend, who is an excellent parent, had the first child with her dickhead boyfriend. He was a dickhead all the classic signs etc. etc.
Cheated and left her when she was pregnant.
She then went back to him and had another child, he cheated and left again, no future faking.

The bit I don't often post about is that whilst they were split he had two more children with two other women that he also cheated on.

All of these women knew his background, knew that he was a dickhead.
Yet they decided to have kids with him.

Yes he is a dickhead but they decided to have kids with this 'bad boy' so no real sympathy from me.

but for those that have someone that stops being good they do have my sympathy.

Seriously ! try reading my post again. I clearly said that I don't blame women when their partner changes once they've had a baby. I also said that I wouldn't blame women who accidentally got pregnant.
However, if a woman's chooses to have a baby with someone they know is going to be a bad father then I do think they are irresponsible. I used the phrase 'deliberately chooses' as I wanted to make it crystal clear I wouldn't blame anyone who was pushed or tricked into it.

I agree with the view that most men, given a free choice would remain childfree. My DH freely admitted that he was completely ambivalent about having children. Now DD is here he’s besotted with her and spends loads of time with her, but still freely admits that given the straight choice he wouldn’t have had kids.

How many women do you that had a second child because they thought it would save their relationship?

Its exactly the same level of intelligence.

Truth is most men probably wouldn't bother having children. They want a woman, the woman wants children so the man goes along with it.

Another reason is that society is far more forgiving of men being useless lazy parents and husbands. A man can completely walk away from his children and yet he'll still find another reasonably intelligent woman to snag him and even make more babies. People just live to blame women. Men are enabled by everyone from their own parents, their friends, their girlfriends. Women get a hard time no matter what they do.

Because society allows men to walk away, turn a blind eye, spend time working, hobbies or move away

It's so easy for men

I am reminded of the case in America were the woman took the rapper to court for assault(?) for putting hot sauce in to the condom they used so she inseminate herself.

She saw a meal ticket and tried it on.

PurpleButterflyWings Fuck me there are some shitty comments on this thread

Yep, mainly from you. 🥱

They like the image of being a family man, without the hard work that comes with it.

Yup

When I met DH I knew I loved him, but due to his fragile MH I also knew I'd never have children with him. I knew he wouldn't be able to cope. Fifty yrs later and I know it was the right decision. He's come to realise he's too selfish. Having children is an act of faith in the future......( and don't tell me he should have had a choice. He was quite happy for me to have a coil fitted for years so we wouldn't have to bother with condoms)

A year or so I was out in a pub with an old college friend; a reasonably attractive man about my age (50s) was nearby and we were chatting. He asked a few questions and then marveled "You've never been married and you don't have kids???" like he had found the Holy Grail. He asked it again and again I confirmed. His eyes lit up and he asked for my contact information. I've had similar reactions over the years. (Didn't go out with him btw).

Based on remarks from co-worker men over the past couple of decades, and encounters like that, I do conclude that only a small sub-set of men actually want day-to-day parenting. Some want to prove their manhood, some go along to get along, some cave to family expectations, but very, very few really want to be interacting with infants, toddlers and school-age children.

It's a standing joke in my neighborhood that on weekends every man with kids takes 3x longer than those without to mow and tend their gardens, as an excuse to be out of the house with ear protectors on.

I just wish they'd have the balls to own up to their lack of interest and take steps to prevent conception. But many women know this about their men and proceed anyway; that's reprehensible too.

OT, but I think it's important to note that a lot of women are ambivalent about having children too. But they have societal pressure towards it in a way that men don't.