Page 10 | To wonder why some men have children at all?

Needmorelego · 30/10/2022 09:26

@Naunet I was being a bit tongue in cheek 🙂
Although Elephants manage to live in a female run society - kicking those pesky boys out when they reach their teens and only letting them back in to make babies.
Maybe.....just maybe (only joking here) female humans weren't very good at hunting so we decided to let the blokes stay 😂🤔

Effic · 30/10/2022 09:28

Men are as affected by social pressures and norms as women.
Men who don’t want children are labelled as commitment phobic ‘man child’ or that there is something ‘wrong’ with them rather than it being a valid choice. Many men want a partner and love them. They want to ‘give’ their partner what they want. I believe this is far more common than the narrative that most men are just nasty, lazy shits who deliberately fuck over their wife and subsequent child. They also are conditioned by what they saw in their own family. Men need to be educated that having children is an active choice and it is the expectation that prior to conception all aspects - split of paternity and maternity leave, equal part time working or full time for both with 50/50 split of nursery fees & child care -are discussed and agreed or they can say no without negative judgement. They need to be called out on the “I only had them because she wanted them” or if they agree and back out.

Women who don’t want children are either cold/bitch or an assumption made that they can’t and need to be pitied or patronised by the “you’ll change you mind/nothing more fulfilling than motherhood” narrative that some women push. I think many women are conditioned to think they should want children and so do so without any idea what it entails and don’t think it through. And women need to stop making such shit choices and should be called out when they do. If women stopped getting pregnant to fuckwit men, there wouldn’t be any fuckwit fathers. (With the exception of rape/coercion which doesn’t make up the majority of pregnancy) - in this country and the majority of the western world - this is entirely in the control of the women. That’s why it’s terrifying that some countries are trying to take this right away and needs to be fought at every turn. Education, education, education for women is the key. Women need aspiration and ambition to get a career and find fulfilment in its achievement and understand that it’s our job to finance our life rather than wife and SAHM with a nice house all being paid for by hubbie promoted as the ideal and somehow an accomplishment

Couples who are childless are assumed to be infertile or if they make it clear that it isn’t the case - they are considered odd or incomplete in some way.

Both sexes need to be educated that having children is a choice and to not have them is a very valid choice that can bring great joy and fulfilment. It’s not a man or women thing - it’s both.

KimberleyClark · 30/10/2022 09:43

I think many women are conditioned to think they should want children

and are just as much conditioned to fear regretting it if they don’t have children. It’s pushed as the biggest regret you can possibly have.

Derekbluehorn · 30/10/2022 09:55

I agree and I think if most women were honest with themselves they wouldn't actually care that much how man women the man screwed or how much he was present so long as his salary meant she could afford some childcare drive a nice car and lunch with the gals twice a week

Blocked · 30/10/2022 09:56

Men quite often like getting women pregnant. And they see children as a bit of a status symbol, something to show off about. (Some men obviously)

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 30/10/2022 09:59

KimberleyClark · 30/10/2022 09:43

I think many women are conditioned to think they should want children

and are just as much conditioned to fear regretting it if they don’t have children. It’s pushed as the biggest regret you can possibly have.

Agree. When actually the childfree life is quite pleasant and fulfilling. And eco-friendly.

Our paradigms need to change radically in order to salvage this poor burning planet.

thelobsterquadrille · 30/10/2022 11:09

Women who don’t want children are either cold/bitch or an assumption made that they can’t and need to be pitied or patronised by the “you’ll change you mind/nothing more fulfilling than motherhood” narrative that some women push

100% this. I'm childfree by choice and so are a few of my friends - but everyone makes assumptions that it's temporary or I'll change my mind

I get comments like "Why don't you want children?" "I'm surprised you haven't had DC yet", "No plans for children then?" - it's so inappropriate. When I say I don't actually want any children, I then get "Oh, you'll change your mind one day - children are SUCH a blessing!". Ugh. It's gross.

Original poster

TheRossatron · 30/10/2022 11:30

thelobsterquadrille · 30/10/2022 11:09

Women who don’t want children are either cold/bitch or an assumption made that they can’t and need to be pitied or patronised by the “you’ll change you mind/nothing more fulfilling than motherhood” narrative that some women push

100% this. I'm childfree by choice and so are a few of my friends - but everyone makes assumptions that it's temporary or I'll change my mind

I get comments like "Why don't you want children?" "I'm surprised you haven't had DC yet", "No plans for children then?" - it's so inappropriate. When I say I don't actually want any children, I then get "Oh, you'll change your mind one day - children are SUCH a blessing!". Ugh. It's gross.

Same! Knew it when I was 5, knew it when I was 17 and know it now. I'll be 40 in a couple of years. Eventually people took the hint 🙄

OP posts:

Penguinsaregreat · 30/10/2022 13:14

I agree with the above and I do have children.
So many women I’ve come across saying how difficult it is to be sterilised. Treated with a patronising manor by medical staff as in a you don’t know your own mind way.
How dreadful to have to live with the fear of pregnancy for mist if your life. Totally wrong.

DoraSpenlow · 30/10/2022 13:34

I get comments like "Why don't you want children?" "I'm surprised you haven't had DC yet", "No plans for children then?" - it's so inappropriate. When I say I don't actually want any children, I then get "Oh, you'll change your mind one day - children are SUCH a blessing!".

Another childless by choice friend of mine once said that people who say these things to childless (by choice) people just want them to be a miserable as they are and are jealous that we get to do what we want with our lives.

RandomMusings7 · 30/10/2022 13:40

Another childless by choice friend of mine once said that people who say these things to childless (by choice) people just want them to be a miserable as they are and are jealous that we get to do what we want with our lives.

yep, that's exactly how I interpret it. They're trying to justify their life choices to themselves and are also trying to bring you down to the same level of drudgery and misery. The happy parents never feel the need to judge other choices or lobby for reproducing.

Cuppasoupmonster · 30/10/2022 13:43

RandomMusings7 · 30/10/2022 13:40

Another childless by choice friend of mine once said that people who say these things to childless (by choice) people just want them to be a miserable as they are and are jealous that we get to do what we want with our lives.

yep, that's exactly how I interpret it. They're trying to justify their life choices to themselves and are also trying to bring you down to the same level of drudgery and misery. The happy parents never feel the need to judge other choices or lobby for reproducing.

It sounds like you have disdain even for the happy parents though…

thelobsterquadrille · 30/10/2022 13:44

DoraSpenlow · 30/10/2022 13:34

I get comments like "Why don't you want children?" "I'm surprised you haven't had DC yet", "No plans for children then?" - it's so inappropriate. When I say I don't actually want any children, I then get "Oh, you'll change your mind one day - children are SUCH a blessing!".

Another childless by choice friend of mine once said that people who say these things to childless (by choice) people just want them to be a miserable as they are and are jealous that we get to do what we want with our lives.

It wouldn't surprise me.

I've also never met a childless-by-choice person who gives their unwanted opinion about whether other people should have had kids, either. When my friends with kids say they're tired or stressed or fed up, I don't say "well, why did you have them then?!"

RandomMusings7 · 30/10/2022 14:00

@Cuppasoupmonster why?

Lookingoutside · 02/06/2023 00:19

TheRossatron · 29/10/2022 13:56

When they have absolutely zero interest in family life? I see it on here constantly. I don't mean men who accidentally get someone pregnant and shirk responsibility... I mean men who enter into a relationship with a woman, propose, get married and try for babies... then end up with two toddlers and a presumption that they can dump everything onto the wife and fuck off out all weekend every weekend to play golf? Or get smashed in the pub? Or sit playing video games all day? I myself loathe the thought of family life - I just wouldn't want to be tied to anyone and would feel suffocated and resentful. So why on earth don't they just stay single and childless?! Baffles me.

(Disclaimer - I know there are loads of really good men out there!)

Because they don’t think about it, or question themselves, or have any sort of inner life or self awareness.

Same as a lot of women who have children because (and I quote):

’You can’t just have fun forever can you’.

’It’s what comes next isn’t it’.

’I don’t want to regret it if I don’t’

And then just cannot understand why they’re miserable and their relationship is falling apart.

Flufferblub · 02/06/2023 04:50

My ex really wanted dc, and we really wanted the same things. It's just sad now how little responsibility he takes.

Poppysmom22 · 02/06/2023 06:23

I'm not sure they deliberately are a bit shit but I do think that social programming has a lot to do with the failure of men to engage in the rearing of their children. Women and motherhood have been put on a pedestal that's so high that non conformity makes you second class as a woman and a person I can't but think that this mother goddess playbook is equally detrimental to men and their relationship with the family unit when there value is secondary in the the family dynamic. Could also just be feckless shites like

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 03/06/2023 02:58

Poppysmom22 · 02/06/2023 06:23

I'm not sure they deliberately are a bit shit but I do think that social programming has a lot to do with the failure of men to engage in the rearing of their children. Women and motherhood have been put on a pedestal that's so high that non conformity makes you second class as a woman and a person I can't but think that this mother goddess playbook is equally detrimental to men and their relationship with the family unit when there value is secondary in the the family dynamic. Could also just be feckless shites like

Extremely well said.

TodayInahurry · 20/08/2023 08:26

Many men regard children as the woman’s hobby