Just Stop Oil's daily protests

[CatsAreAlwaysCute]

Is anyone else concerned about where these daily protests will lead us?

The public are clearly getting more and more irritated by their antics. It's only a matter of time before one of the protestors are seriously injured.

I'm also worried that the government will ban certain types of protest as a result?

I can't watch the news about their road blocks anymore it makes me too cross, though I did see on ITV news yesterday a man was prevented from going to his own father's funeral due to the road blocks. I think I would kill someone if they made me miss something like that. No one sympathises with their cause when they start to pull stunts like this and they'll end up pissing off the wrong person.

@Clymene I am sympathetic to the cause, not their way of going about it. They are actually causing an awful lot of emissions etc

I think everyone from the public to politicians knows there is a real issue- and it's finding ways around this without making it impossible for people to make a living , have a life that matters. Also pressure needed more in places like China- (personally I would love to boycott them , not just on environment but the covid issue etc)

My son is 24, he's centre left, believes in the cause - but doesn't agree with this way of going about it either

Yes - most people are, broadly, in favour of the cause. The protestors are just pissing people off.

I’d argue they are making people talk about their protests. Whether they are talking about making positive changes is another thing.

If you look at my search history I have started threads years back where loads of people joined, multiple pages long of discussing the ways they were making their gardens more biodiverse and sustainable to support our flora / fauna and contribute a little bit to try to make a more resilient environment while the ecosystem goes through these changes. It was really inspiring and exciting everyone getting involved.

Most recently I posted a thread about the documentary I mentioned upthread; can’t remember exactly when but within the last year or so. The doc was ‘Kiss the Ground’ as it was the first eco documentary I had seen that talked about the thing I thought was left out of the equation and left me leaving with excitement and hope rather than complete despair. Guess what - no one wanted to talk about it. Not one thread reply.

Why? I don’t know. But all these years of eco campaigning have IMO lessened the enthusiasm of individuals rather than positively contributed to it. Which is understandable. If you truly believe what they are saying; that we are all going to die of starvation or in a forest fire/ tsunami/ heat wave tomorrow then why bother.

It depends on how you are defining insignificant really.

In terms of UK emissions as a % of total global emissions you might have a point, but that doesn't tell the whole story by far. It also ignores the fact that climate change is a global issue, not a national one.

Global emissions need to be reduced, there's no denying that. The UK also needs to reduce its consumption levels of all resources significantly as right now our overshoot day falls around mid May.

It's bewildering that some people think the solution is for us to sit back, wait and quietly fade into oblivion while hoping for others to save us, instead of working to find solutions that will a) help insulate our own country from future supply chain issues and market volatility and b) could be exported worldwide along with a nice boost to our economy.

And roger Hallam is the co founder of a lot of these groups; extinction rebellion, just stop oil, insulate Britain, animal rebellion.

I tried to find his work history and all I can find is he set up an organic farm which was successful and then apparently died due to ‘weird weather’. Organic to go (west) Ltd if anyone is of interest about the company accounts and success/ death of said farm.

I have my own theories about what turns a once fertile and successful farm dead over the period of 10-15 years and IMO it’s not the recent weather changes we have seen.

He lives in a single glazed uninsulated house which uses gas heating. Was not willing to put his own money where his mouth was in getting that sorted.

Wraps up the climate issue with radical socialist ideas. But not the kind of self supporting socialism where you hire people for a living wage to work on your farms. The kind that asks you to work voluntarily as good opportunity for your CV, and expects the government to pay for 100% of your double glazing.

I don’t really like him. I think he just wants to be a name. He probably would have made more impact by just training as an insulation expert, a double glazer, or having a deep think about why his farm has failed but many other neighbouring welsh organic farms haven’t.

So you’re saying you want the gov’t to step in and subsidise and support Big Oil?

They could at the very least stop saying they’ll end drilling (as Biden said recently) and give out more licenses, including on federal lands (where they are happy to let beef cattle graze but god forbid we open it up to drilling …)

Fossil fuels are going to run out one day. They’re already delivering a fraction of the energy return they did a century ago

You are going to need a source for that. Plenty of oil, gas and coal to be exploited, as long as we have the capacity to refine it. It does take time from discovery to extraction, but that’s why we need to double down on it now and not let our energy infrastructure further wither away.

And because of my experience in China breathing in smog, I don’t particularly like coal and I don’t want ICE engines in urban areas (wouldn’t ban them though). But as I said, I would rather breathe it down than freeze in winter. I’m sure most feel that way.

And maybe moving those plants do nothing for climate change, but they are a huge win for human respiratory health. That’s nothing to sniff at.

And I’m sorry you are a doomer on nuclear because that’s the only energy source that can possibly replace fossil fuels when it comes to electricity generation. I’m ofc fine with continuing to burn fossil fuels, but I wouldn’t mind a transition to nuclear for the cleaner air.

Guy jumps out of 100 storey building. Fifty storeys down exclaims “so far, so good

You remind me of an apocalyptic preacher, who when wrong on the date of doom will just move the day further in the future.

@BerriesOnTop

They could at the very least stop saying they’ll end drilling (as Biden said recently) and give out more licenses, including on federal lands (where they are happy to let beef cattle graze but god forbid we open it up to drilling …)

Biden and a lot of gov’ts are less the bottleneck. They’ve been talking tough about reducing FFs for years, but nothing has seriously been done about that. The lack of investment is down to investor worries after the fracking revolution sank the oil market and then caused OPEC to get jitters. They then suffered thru COVID, only to find that funds were no longer happy to keep throwing money at something that wasn’t returning any profit.

For the NOCs, well, let me know if you think Russia and Saudi Arabia are reducing output because they cannot get financing or they have ESG saboteurs in their midst.

Most of the IOCs have consolidated assets because they’re not cost effective with current market prices, and that has only just changed. But if you look at the maximum tolerable prices the economy can take, they are the rock against the lower limit price the producer can tolerate, the hard place. That margin is being squeezed to the point that there is no reason for anyone to invest in excess capacity without massive taxpayer subsidies. Historically in the US, when 5% or more of spending is on energy such as oil, a recession or depression occurs.

You are going to need a source for that. Plenty of oil, gas and coal to be exploited, as long as we have the capacity to refine it. It does take time from discovery to extraction, but that’s why we need to double down on it now and not let our energy infrastructure further wither away.

I already have. You’re either being wilfully dense or just not reading my replies. The number of discoveries have been falling for DECADES. Go on, blame Biden and ESG. I’m sure the oil majors are just not looking hard enough, right? You’re sounding like those people thinking the North Sea has mass untapped potential that the filthy hippies are holding us back from embracing. Too bad the actual data shows you’re wrong. Grant all the licences you want. No one is going to return us to 1999 levels of production. Ask Norway too if you think it’s the Brits being slack.

Again, that’s not what peak oil, or peak any resource, is about. Venezuela has the most oil of any nation on Earth, with Canada not far behind. If you cannot extract it fast enough, it is utterly irrelevant. The moon of Titan has literal oceans of hydrocarbons. So what? Extraction rates matter, not reserves (which can be totally bogus, just check the Rystad data or BP WEO values for the likes of Saudi over the last 70 years to see how badly fudged).

And you’re also ignoring the exergy cost, which I have already linked a paper to. Good luck extracting that oil if it costs one barrel to get one barrel produced. Compare Spindletop to Thunder Horse. Let me know if you see a problem here. I’ll wait.

And because of my experience in China breathing in smog, I don’t particularly like coal and I don’t want ICE engines in urban areas (wouldn’t ban them though). But as I said, I would rather breathe it down than freeze in winter. I’m sure most feel that way.


And maybe moving those plants do nothing for climate change, but they are a huge win for human respiratory health. That’s nothing to sniff at.

I forgot particulates only stay around the source. How silly of me to think things like trade winds could bring forest fire fumes or Chernobyl fallout to places outside their point of origin. What a win.

Additionally, pretty funny you find respiratory health to be a concern, but not whether the planet will be able to support modern civilisation. What are you going to do when the plant yields get clobbered by erratic growing season and lead to mass starvation as is becoming readily apparent now?

And I’m sorry you are a doomer on nuclear because that’s the only energy source that can possibly replace fossil fuels when it comes to electricity generation. I’m ofc fine with continuing to burn fossil fuels, but I wouldn’t mind a transition to nuclear for the cleaner air.

Are you just fabricating this weird image of me frothing at the mouth against things for no reason? You do know why I pointed out nuclear isn’t saving us, right? Like, you actually grasp how building several times the total capacity of nukes currently in existence every couple of years is literally impossible?

You remind me of an apocalyptic preacher, who when wrong on the date of doom will just move the day further in the future.

Yeah, except I seem to have data supporting my side of things, while you’re telling me “lol just still baby drill” like someone who never cracked open a petro-geology or thermodynamics textbook.

Or, y’know, basic arithmetic.

There’s a reason debt obligations keep on growing and the productive output of our economies has been wanting.

China and the other emerging markets are now hitting that point. Energy is simply too expensive to maintain such systems with profligate waste and expansionism now. Does anyone seriously think that, with a growth rate of “only” 7%, the world could support China’s consumption and pollution output doubling in a decade from now?

twitter.com/carlywarly68/status/1590474107459895297

Remember the ECO clown crying her eyes out on top of the M25 gantry?
Just wondering how she got to Argentina for her holiday.

But OMG @AlecTrevelyan006 thats like totally different dude, y'know she was out there (on a boat of course) to help people no doubt..... 🤔

If that’s the girl crying on the video I was talking about I think tracking down her personal Twitter is a bit much.

It’s not ‘tracking down’ her Twitter - it took two seconds to find her. She’s all over social media.

Yes but they would plan around that. Also the protesters blocked five different parts of the M25. People were stuck on it with no warning.

Yeah, it won't be difficult to find her. She's also put herself out there, and with that, for better or worse, comes people looking up your social media and scrutinising your actions (which as we've seen, isn't good for them when you're a pompous JSO activist belittling others). She should have made it all private it she didn't want people up in arms about her trips to the other side of the world while she lectures everyone else.
The things is, I don't think most people disagree that there is a climate emergency - it's their actions that are annoying people, and how they feel they have the right to act as if we don't care because we disagree with their methods.

Being controversial here but what good would it do if little England banned fossil fuels tomorrow?

Well, the entire economy would collapse in a week and we’d all freeze and starve.

But that’s not what JSO propose, thankfully. They’re not quite as clueless as I imagined.

Just fuel or all fossil fuel products?

Harris is a wannabe celeb. Like Patsy Stevenson.

They are not a pain for everyone, not everyone relies on cars. They happened near me recently, didn't affect me at all

Yes, you've told the thread several times now how it hasn't impacted you and it shouldn't impact anyone else either.

Great. I'm sure everyone else is as delighted for you as I am.

At the same time, these protests are designed to impact people or there wouldn't be much point in them.

Do you not rely on lorries? Fair enough if you're completely self-sufficient, but if you're buying food from the supermarket or clothes from pretty much any retailer, for a start, HGVs need to deliver them. A lot of those drivers will have had an unexpected night out away from their families due to those protesters too.

No totally I am with you. It’s hypocritical. And I too really dislike JSO.

But I just really don’t think she’s in a good way if you watch that video. And we all know they are hypocrites anyway. They hardly trecked to the flyover and will return to a mud hut fired by coppice wood. I just think linking to the page itself is all a bit to much. She needs help. And we aren’t helping her by doing that. We should be the bigger person not stoop to JSO levels.

@LemonSwan - the one where she's crying on the gantry? The one she filmed? The one she filmed before getting on a plane and flying on a commercial airline to South America?

Or is there another video?

They hardly trecked to the flyover and will return to a mud hut fired by coppice wood

I hope they aren't just think of all the co2 and pollution that generates.