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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Just Stop Oil's daily protests

431 replies

CatsAreAlwaysCute · 27/10/2022 16:09

Is anyone else concerned about where these daily protests will lead us?

The public are clearly getting more and more irritated by their antics. It's only a matter of time before one of the protestors are seriously injured.

I'm also worried that the government will ban certain types of protest as a result?

OP posts:
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9
Tara336 · 10/11/2022 09:34

@Clymene thank you, I'm sorry for your loss. @Devoutspoken the railways that are on strike? If I want to get home I need to take the fastest most direct route. The twats on gantries don't announce their plans thats part of their tactics, roadworks I could get around by checking the apps but with every other person also trying to divert how well do you think that will work. JSO like to avoid the difficult questions and change the subject when challenged. I have no time for them and never will.

Devoutspoken · 10/11/2022 09:36

Just a thought, you could join them online and you could get a heads up in all their plans!

Lunar270 · 10/11/2022 09:43

MichelleScarn · 10/11/2022 09:14

We just don't want the inconvenience because we all think our little lives matter.

Well if 'our little lives' don't matter what's the point of JSO then? Usually this is said when people mean your little lives don't matter, do what I want/say.

No need to take it so personally. It's a general comment and sadly @Tara336 took it the wrong way but ultimately it's true. I didn't say she was selfish specifically but that we all are because we've normalised our dependence on fossil fuels to catastrophic levels

The point of JSO is obviously to make us all think about the planet we rely so heavily on, because quite frankly we're all taking the piss out of it and not respecting it. We're all collectively extremely selfish because we place our lives well above everything else, instead of trying to coexist with the most valuable resource we have.

So yes, our little lives are pretty insignificant but the planet isn't. It's not hard to grasp really.

Tara336 · 10/11/2022 09:44

@Devoutspoken I'd rather not have them think I support them in any way. I understand your logic but the last thing I would want is to effectively boost their numbers and encourage them. I am just going to have to hope that the police crack down hard now and us insignificant people can get on with our small lives (sorry but the comments above from another mumsnetter actually bought me to tears)

Devoutspoken · 10/11/2022 09:52

Tara, its meant in the sense that all our lives are insignificant - , why are my plans being screwed by train strikes any different to car drivers plans bring screwed by protests?

Clymene · 10/11/2022 09:53

It is personal @Lunar270. They are wrecking people's lives. Little or otherwise.

And all this makes me feel is absolute rage. Not at the destruction of the planet but at the protestors.

So again, what exactly do you think the protests are achieving? They are no persuading people, they are actively turning people away.

Perhaps if you stopped listening to weird perverts like Roger Hallam you'd have a bit more empathy.

Tara336 · 10/11/2022 09:53

@Lunar270 you were asked to not reply. Respect that please and do not tag me again.

Lunar270 · 10/11/2022 09:54

Clymene · 10/11/2022 09:24

I'm so sorry @Tara336. My dad's funeral was yesterday and my sister who was doing the eulogy nearly didn't make it in time. It's just so stressful and making really hard situations much worse.

No one has managed to explain to me how ruining other people's 'little lives' will have any impact on government policy.

Well obviously it doesn't because the drastic and life changing measures required to eliminate fossil fuel dependence would not win votes.

People don't like change. I include myself in this but no-one wants to give up their creature comforts, toys and nice way of life. We do our bit. I drive an EV, recycle, minimise unecessary consumption but I don't fool myself into thinking it's remotely enough.

Change comes from both the government and ourselves. I've no affiliation with JSO but am sympathetic to their cause as it's right. But sadly after a period of inconvenience, some will think about it a bit but next week we'll go back to business as usual.

It's an uncomfortable truth but truth nonetheless.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 10/11/2022 09:57

It's weird how angry people get over JSO blocking roads.

Roads are blocked unexpectedly everyday for all sorts of reasons. The main road between my town and one of the nearby towns was blocked yesterday for most of the day because someone took a gamble pulled out into on coming traffic when they shouldn't have. The main motorway between my town and our nearest city was also blocked last week because people can't drive safely in poor weather and 6 cars went into the back of each other.

My town has the main hospital for the county so anyone who needed emergency care on those days would be facing delays and large detours to get there because of a few people's selfish actions. Yet there's no outrage and calls for action over shit driving.

Why does JSO bring out so much anger? Is it because they make people reflect on their own actions and they don't like the what they see?

Devoutspoken · 10/11/2022 09:57

Hopefully people will use their cars just a little less, that would be a positive outcome

Devoutspoken · 10/11/2022 10:10

The bestwaytoscareatory - thats the point I was trying to make, I don't know why one form of traffic delay is any different to others, you don't see drivers trying to nudge work men out of the way with their 4wheel drives

Lunar270 · 10/11/2022 10:10

Clymene · 10/11/2022 09:53

It is personal @Lunar270. They are wrecking people's lives. Little or otherwise.

And all this makes me feel is absolute rage. Not at the destruction of the planet but at the protestors.

So again, what exactly do you think the protests are achieving? They are no persuading people, they are actively turning people away.

Perhaps if you stopped listening to weird perverts like Roger Hallam you'd have a bit more empathy.

Well the protests are making you talk about it and perhaps you might even evaluate your own behaviour and consumption? We've hit over 10 pages of discussion already. Seems to have done something.

But are you going to turn away and whack up your heating because you don't like them? Or burn more fossil fuels in disgust? Are they actively turning you away from trying to reduce your consumption? I can't imagine so.

The fact you're raging is natural, if it's affected you directly and I sympathize, genuinely. But it's quite sad that people need messages delivered in nice packaging, which really doesn't do anything either. I understand the frustration from both sides but perhaps moreso from them as nothings really happening is it? Quite the opposite as the government is investing more money in gas and oil.

Who's Roger Hallam? Never heard of him.

CurzonDax · 10/11/2022 10:26

A friend of mine lost her FiL yesterday. They knew it was coming, and he was in 'final days', so (thankfully ) her DH had spent the previous few days and nights at his parent's house, to be with his dad.
When my friend got the call from her DH yesterday, she immediately jumped in her car to go to her DH and MiL. It should have taken her around 15-20 minutes to get there; it took her over 3 hours, as local roads were all backlogged, due to these protestors.

They literally kept a grieving family apart.

Devoutspoken · 10/11/2022 10:31

2 and half hour delay is not extortionate, I've been delayed longer for other reasons

Clymene · 10/11/2022 10:32

@Lunar270 Nice packaging? No, I'd just like to know how this is going to make a difference to policy.

Roger Hallam founded extinction rebellion. He's a man who enjoys rape fantasies and has a fetish for young women. Extremist cults are always founded by creepy old men pulling the strings of stupid idealistic young people

Theluggage15 · 10/11/2022 10:37

Anyone supporting these fucking idiots is a twat. The U.K. is completely insignificant in terms of emissions. They don’t give a shit about climate change anyway, they’re just attention seeking idiots who are actually harming their ‘cause’. And yes Hallam is just a sad old pervert.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 10/11/2022 10:42

Devoutspoken · 10/11/2022 09:52

Tara, its meant in the sense that all our lives are insignificant - , why are my plans being screwed by train strikes any different to car drivers plans bring screwed by protests?

People are forewarned about train strikes and can therefore make alternative arrangements.

JSO protests are pointless and a pain in the arse for everyone.

BerriesOnTop · 10/11/2022 10:42

The point of JSO is obviously to make us all think about the planet we rely so heavily on, because quite frankly we're all taking the piss out of it and not respecting it

And yet you do not appreciate that fossil fuels have made you healthier, happier and longer lived. Given you abundant food and clean water. Allowed you the freedom of travel. Enabled your children to live past childhood. Given you medicine and medical devices.

I could go on.

We're all collectively extremely selfish because we place our lives well above everything else, instead of trying to coexist with the most valuable resource we have

You cannot coexist with nature. Not in its natural state. You would die, as will hundreds of millions of others.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 10/11/2022 10:45

Devoutspoken · 10/11/2022 10:10

The bestwaytoscareatory - thats the point I was trying to make, I don't know why one form of traffic delay is any different to others, you don't see drivers trying to nudge work men out of the way with their 4wheel drives

People don’t deliberately have traffic accidents.

roadworks are planned, publicised and have diversions where appropriate.

protests deliberately set out to cause delays and inconvenience

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 10/11/2022 11:41

Theluggage15 · 10/11/2022 10:37

Anyone supporting these fucking idiots is a twat. The U.K. is completely insignificant in terms of emissions. They don’t give a shit about climate change anyway, they’re just attention seeking idiots who are actually harming their ‘cause’. And yes Hallam is just a sad old pervert.

The UK is the 12th largest contributor to global emissions based on consumption and 17th based on territorial emissions, out of 192 countries.

It might make you feel better to claim we are insignificant but we as a rich western nation whose overconsumption for the couple of centuries has significantly contributed to the situation we find outselves in now and who sill occupy important seats at various global leadership tables. We have a moral and legal obligation to address our emissions and to lead the way in decarbonising our economy.

Interestingly the people I see proclaiming Britain's insignificance with regards to emissions often do a 180 when you ask why such an insignificant nation should spend billions on defence or have a voice on a global stage when it comes to other matters.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 10/11/2022 11:48

AlecTrevelyan006 · 10/11/2022 10:45

People don’t deliberately have traffic accidents.

roadworks are planned, publicised and have diversions where appropriate.

protests deliberately set out to cause delays and inconvenience

People generally don't deliberately have accidents no, but 9/10 accidents on roads are caused by deliberately driving unsafley.

The person who ploughs into an oncoming car because they just had to reply to that text while driving deliberately chose to ignore the law.

The 6 car crash I referred to in my post was caused purely because at least 5 people chose to deliberately drive unsafely for the conditions.

If it's the deliberateness that angers you surely you'd be angry at them too?

Liebig · 10/11/2022 12:46

@BerriesOnTop

Of course oil production drops when the bottlenecks are at the licensing and refinery stage. We need to increase that capacity so as to increase supply.

You may think with high prices that oil majors would invest money into these projects, but they have sat on money instead because they are threatened by vagaries of political sentiment and prefer to hand it back to their shareholders. It’s safer for them.

You aren’t going to sink billions into new projects just to have the next PM or President yank your license (or not issue future ones) because it’s politically expedient for them. Refineries are getting creaky and some are downright dangerous, but where’s the support for getting new ones or updating the current ones from the government?

Should they just ignore the ‘end fossil fuels’ rhetoric and face the possibility that they will be shut down by the powers that be?

The majority of the oil reserves today are owned by national oil companies.

The reason investment in private is below par is because of volatility. So you’re saying you want the gov’t to step in and subsidise and support Big Oil? Thinking that may go down badly with the current social climate (not to mention the actual climate).

Fossil fuels are going to run out one day. They’re already delivering a fraction of the energy return they did a century ago. Most of the oil and gas and coal will never be produced because it will never be viable energetically. What’s your plan for that? I have already pointed out that the oil industry alone is growing exponentially in terms of catabolism.

I have spent much of my life in China. I know what it’s like to breathe in smog in winter that comes from burning coal. I also know what it is to freeze in the winter, and you’ll absolutely take the smog when it comes down to it.

Besides, China’s solution hasn’t been to ‘stop coal’. They are doubling down on it and raising production and building new plants.

To ease air pollution, however, they were moving old plants farther away from urban areas. They tried to limit cars but that’s not as effective as just moving the coal plants to the countryside.

Does nothing about climate change and so is useless.

It used to be possible. France built 50+ reactors in 15 years just after the oil shocks in the 70s. It was a smart move for them. Now it takes 15
years just to get one built. So it’s not that it can’t be done, but it seems the technical expertise and political will is not there. But it’s the only way to replace fossil fuels in electricity generation.

We have a decent supply of uranium and we haven’t even scratched the surface of fuel reprocessing. Don’t forget it can also be processed from seawater, which would add to the expense but is actually possible with today’s technology.

The US and UK, and given France’s current nuclear woes, have practically zero nuclear expertise or industry outside of military naval applications. China, South Korea and Russia have that monopoly, to say nothing of the uranium reserves in Kazakhstan, say, being politically dicey these days. The simple truth is, even China cannot make anywhere near the needed reactor output today, and no other nation has anywhere near the capacity. You’re talking about two 1 GW plants being brought online every day from now till 2050 to offset all other energy sources today. That’s never happening by sheer cost alone, let alone the energy needed just to do this (it would require sizeable diverting of energy from other sectors to do such a project globally).

The Malthusians have been wrong time and time again. How many more times must they be proven wrong before we just stop listening to them?

Guy jumps out of 100 storey building. Fifty storeys down exclaims “so far, so good”.

They only need to be right once. And given every other civilisation has collapsed, and the only reason Malthus was wrong was because of the green revolution and fossil fuels, you’re not actually disproving anything. If you genuinely think things are peachy and we just need a bit more energy, you may want to check the other parameters that dictate limits. Check out metal ore yields, plastic pollution, biodiversity, water aquifer levels, phosphate stocks and flows and marine pH.

You’re telling me you believe we can keep growing forever. Anyone exposed to exponential growth will
tell you that is impossible, and the indebtedness of our global economy compared to material output is a pretty good indicator as to this being hit now.

If you think Big Oil has many bright years ahead, consider that shale is the geological equivalent of squeezing the sponge. And that requires CAPEX input that has never made anyone any profit in the US, hence the lack of investing in new DUCs or rigs is because they need to be in the black before Wall Street sends any more trucks of cash to burn.

FanFckingTastic · 10/11/2022 12:49

protests deliberately set out to cause delays and inconvenience

It seems like the protestors want to piss off the very people that could support them - it's all about them rather than about the message. I also find it odd that the focus at the moment seems to be the motorways. The other day my DH left at 5.30 in the morning to drive to a work meeting. He managed to get around 30 miles in 5 hours, then had to abort and try and get home. He used a monstrous amount of fuel, whilst sat on the motorway, engine running etc. I get that the protestors don't care about the time that he's wasted but I would have imagined that they would care about the wasted fuel, or maybe they don't?

BerriesOnTop · 10/11/2022 13:40

Interestingly the people I see proclaiming Britain's insignificance with regards to emissions often do a 180 when you ask why such an insignificant nation should spend billions on defence or have a voice on a global stage when it comes to other matters

lol you and I both know that Britain is insignificant as far as emissions go, and it should be increasingly acknowledged that Britain’s ‘standing’ on the global stage is insignificant as well

WatchoRulo · 10/11/2022 13:41

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 10/11/2022 09:57

It's weird how angry people get over JSO blocking roads.

Roads are blocked unexpectedly everyday for all sorts of reasons. The main road between my town and one of the nearby towns was blocked yesterday for most of the day because someone took a gamble pulled out into on coming traffic when they shouldn't have. The main motorway between my town and our nearest city was also blocked last week because people can't drive safely in poor weather and 6 cars went into the back of each other.

My town has the main hospital for the county so anyone who needed emergency care on those days would be facing delays and large detours to get there because of a few people's selfish actions. Yet there's no outrage and calls for action over shit driving.

Why does JSO bring out so much anger? Is it because they make people reflect on their own actions and they don't like the what they see?

This is a fair point, but I also get angry when my trip is disrupted because someone's twatty driving. It's not either or.