Mothers of boys -some of you are not helping

[iamjustwinginglife]

I'm sure there are numerous mums to boys who don't treat their sons like little princes and ensure they help out around the house however I'm not sure some mums are helping their boys to grow up in to decent men...and this is why we find Mumsnet full of posts about useless husbands who don't pull their weight at home.

Last night, I had a car full of teenagers all 17 (2 x boys, 2 x girls) and one of the boy's parents had come back from holiday. "It's nice to have them back, I won't need to clean up after myself anymore." Now, they're all good kids, it was just chatter-so I suggested that he carried on cleaning up after himself even though they were back. His reply was "mum likes looking after me, she says it's her job as a mum to make sure she looks after me and gives me everything I want." My child thought that sounded like a great idea-and I bit my tongue to not point out that some mums (me!!) were driving round the countryside at 1am.

This mum works part-time, the children are 17 and 20 and she's obviously got the time to do it but AIBU to think that allowing children to true up thinking they'll be waited in hand and foot isn't really helping them in future life.

You're being spoiled around here (small city) buses stop around 7pm and if you want to go to the nearest small town (10 miles) they stop before 6pm.

Ah so it would be totally my fault if my four boys once adults are totally useless men? Not theirs? All 4 have seen myself - single parent of 4 bring them up. Their dad for youngest 2 is great does everything I do when they are there. They can cook, clean etc but like any child/teen they can be lazy or forget. As did I as a child.

I don’t do everything for them as I don’t have time. However I have brought them to respect other people, and be nice caring and considerate human beings. I hope that continues into adulthood and marriage but at the end of the day I can guide and advise and model good behaviour but once adults they choose their own path. So if they are useless husbands/fathers etc that’ll be very disappointing but they’ve then made their own choices.

Did you genuinely read the OP and think ‘oh yes what she’s describing is exactly how I parent’

if not then why the high dudgeon? It clearly doesn’t apply to you.

No women didn’t hunt (generally speaking) They stayed behind and took care of the young. Because they could feed them and men couldn’t!
Why do you say ‘playing house’ Why make an extremely important role sound like a kids game? Extremely derogatory.
No men and women arn’t often equal parents. Because as you say, we are made differently biologically. Hormones alone will tell you that everything biologically is geared to the mother being the main care giver. Not to even mention the small fact of breast milk which historically speaking if there was no mother or lactating woman around then the baby would most likely sadly have not survived.
On your last point:
Firstly it’s far more than 0.01% of women who choose to be the primary caregiver for their baby / small child.
Secondly - yes of course they have all been raised. Just perhaps not mainly by the mother because they if they are out working most days then they are not the primary caregiver. If a majority of child care is outsourced then someone else has had a big part in raising your child!

@PurpleWisteria1

They did hunt and gather. They absolutely did not stay home and only look after the babies. If you want to use evolution to argue your points, its best if you have the actual evidence.

The idea of a single pcg who does nothing but look after 1 baby is absolutely a very very modern (as in the past 10/20 years)idea. Its certainly not how women evolved. We evolved to raise babies in family groups. Mums, dad's, grandparents. Aunts uncles.

So you can't argue evolution and then criticise women for having help in raising their children. Thats literally how it should be.

And children have 2 parents. Of course someone else should be raising them!

and in hunter-gatherer societies, most calories are from gathering rather than hunting, which can be done whilst carrying a baby/with a toddler in tow- also hunting/trapping small animals and birds easily compatible with bf
see also- the menopause

I’m sorry, I disagree. Gatherers yes. Hunters- mainly no.
Groups yes. Of women mainly. Babies and toddlers fed breast milk. By their mother or another female. Unless you are claiming men could do that as well?
Look to remote tribes today who have little to do with modern ways of living. They still exist and I can tell you, it’s not hoards of women hunting and men looking after babies.
Where did I say there weren’t two parents? My DH and I have raised 3 kids. But it’s been me who has done the vast majority of the raising because he has been out at work 12 hours per day 5 days a week whilst I have been the primary caregiver. Even when he is here, I’m also still here 99% of the time. So I would say I’ve mainly raised them. If I had continued me career then I would have needed a nanny for 12+ hours per day. I wouldn’t have seen my children Monday-Friday at all most likely for most weeks.
In that case, I would say I had a hand in raising them but the main part of the raising would have been the nanny.
That was my point regarding beeding to be present to actually raise your child and the juxtaposition between studying for years for a career and then feeling the pull of motherhood and having to make that decision. Ancient human need V modern ideology / desires.

Yes I totally agree with this. But still, I would be interesting to know how many men carried babies whilst they hunted or indeed gathered.

@PurpleWisteria1

The evidence is available.

🤷‍♀️

I dont think its an ancient human need to never leave your children. Its a minority of well off women in the past few years who claim its a biological need.

Its a bit sad you don't think your oh raised your children or that he never got any time alone with them.

I take it you home school?

I said he helped raise them. I was mainly referring to the baby stage really. As they have got older he has had more time alone as children have been doing different things.
No I don’t home school (although I am there for all times around school hours so yes, after age 4.5 the school has also helped raise them but I also hold the view that by age 5 a child’s personality, moral compass and the way they view the world is mostly set.

Through all of this, I am 51, my mother didn’t insist I helped at home or did my own washing. I got paid 10 p to empty the dishwasher, knew how to iron and lay the table. That was really it and despite that I am now a competent fully fledged adult who can run my own home 🤷🏻‍♀️

@PurpleWisteria1

Well the evidence doesn't back you on that either

Jeezo.

Fully formed adults at 4.5

Never mind teen boys op. Need to get it sorted by 4.

You do have a wonderful way of twisting peoples words don’t you?
Not fully formed adults. Where did I say that?
It is well evidenced. The first 5-7 years of a child life are the most important and the first 3 are most critical in terms of development . ‘Give me the child until he is 7 and I will show you the man’
Not sure why you seem so sure you know everything about anything. You keep referring to evidence like you have written every piece of research available.
So yes, maybe there is some truth in your snarky last comment. If by 5 the child has known and been shown warmth, kindness, sharing, empathy and love, then maybe they will be more inclined to pull their weight around the house in later years, out of showing kindness and respect for fellow family members.

@PurpleWisteria1

Not sure why you seem so sure you know everything about anything

You're the one making all the claims.

If by 5 the child has known and been shown warmth, kindness, sharing, empathy and love

Isn't this true of all children who aren't abused or neglected?

And yet still we have the old gender stereotypes.

I dont think men and women have decided by age 4 that the men will be lazy pricks and the women will let them.

He was surely being a hobby teen-ager and winding you up. I would be interested to hear his mum's version of what happens in their house

This.

My FIL made my DH a pampered prince doing everything for him and telling ME what I should be doing (cooking, cleaning, fixing, painting) to save DH doing it as he works (ummmm so do I).
FIL looked after MIL like she was a princess! Didn’t teach his son or daughter to do the same.
I’d moan to FIL about DH laziness and he’d say “That was my fault. I always did everything for him.” (and for SIL).

I have sons. I try to get them to do jobs. When they were little they did lots. Now they’re teens they’re like sleepy sloths who eat and eat and make a mess. I will not rest until they are trained 😆

Good for you @pinkstripeycat - I am trying to do the same with my DDs.

Thanks OP! Just mothers or should the father do something to?

after your wonderful insight I’m going to stop 10 year old DD ironing her older brother’s
school shirts and polishing his shoes and see if you could maybe get him to help. He may struggle at first but he can bathe himself these days, so I’m hopeful!

‘No women didn’t hunt (generally speaking)’

that just isn’t true. Our view of the past is coloured by the fact main often wrote the history but more and more is being discovered about the real role of women in societies. However even male historians and sociologist and anthropologists now accept that women did hunt, and look for food etc.

I wouldn't believe everything a teenage boy says in a car, full of his mates. My husband drove our kid and friends to football. The amount of nonsense spouted would fill Wembley stadium.

I think modern evidence shows they also were warriors and fought and killed alongside the men.

‘I wouldn't believe everything a teenage boy says in a car, full of his mates.’

this! Some of the stuff my son asks me about that he’s heard from friends would make you laugh and cry in despair. Some boys that age are just fuckwits! No other word for it. More full of shite than a midden!
it’s a hormone/ bravado thing - hopefully they mostly grow out of it

‘I think modern evidence shows they also were warriors and fought and killed alongside the men.’
yup! This idea that women are genteel and need to be protected is an Edwardian/ Victorian era thing.
who’s going to fight harder to protect their children than women??

Regardless of how cave people lived, there is no biological or evolutionary basis for women being left to do all the work.

There's no biological need for only women to be able to work a hoover or a washing machine.