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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Should MIL be charging her GC for staying with her?

186 replies

LifeIsGreatForUnicorns · 27/10/2022 09:33

Background - DS got offered an apprenticeship in a different town to where we live (2 hours away by train)
As we was staying all week and most weekends an agreement was made he would pay her £400 a month.
After about 6 months, his company changed how they wanted him to work so he was wfh more (he wasn't enjoying living at MIL's as he didn't know anyone, etc) so he reverted to doing approx 2 days a week there and the rest of the time here at home
We changed the payments to £200 to me and £200 to her. Over the last 3 months, he has stayed there only 3 times and as he spends the majority of time at home, I suggested I get the money instead.
FI - when he stays at MIL in the last 3 months, she doesn't cook for him (he buys his own food) & he brings his washing home- whereas at home, he generally eats with us, his washing goes in, etc

He has had to go to up for a couple of nights this week and next (he will probably not then go for a couple of weeks and then may stay 1 or 2 nights only)

MIL has said that if he stays in future he needs to pay £25 a night to stay (no food being offered still!)

For context - she is a single pensioner on her own. There is no mortgage on her house. Last year she stayed with us for 3 months whilst having work completed on her house which we funded and took out a large amount added to our current mortgage which she now pays the interest only on (approx £125 pm) never clearing the capital as her house was in a terrible state with no proper heating and electricity upstairs etc. We did not charge her for staying with us and she made no contribution whilst here (as in she never even paid for a takeaway one night!)

AIBU to think she shouldn't charge DS when he stays occasionally?

YABU - of course she should charge and he should pay
YANBU - he's her GS so should stay free (but maybe it would be nice to get her something sometimes)

OP posts:

OnTheRoll · 27/10/2022 11:08

I may be missing something but a few things sound very odd.

You mention your husband's grandfather who is keeping the house in trust for him. Was that your MIL's father? So GF left the house not to his daughter (MIL) but to his grandson (your DH)? Why not to MIL? You also did say that the house is in her name - and yet she cannot sell it?

A vet weird arrangement all around for a woman who was a daughter to the original owner and, let's not forget, is your husband's mother? Why does she have so little rights? From the way she is written about here you would think that she were some annoying old maiden aunty who is everyone's liability.

She raised your husband for god's sake.

PurplePansy05 · 27/10/2022 11:09

I wouldn't be charging my DC for living at home if they were apprentices, no, unless I was in a serious financial difficulty and their contributions would be necessary, but even then, I would be extremely reluctant. I would expect them to pay for their travel and mobile phones for sure though, and to make their own savings so that they have some starting money to move out when their wage increases.

I think it's delusional of you to say that your MIL should've been expected to keep the house in a livable condition or whatever words you used. It's not her house in reality and she shouldn't be expected to rewire it, ffs. Also if she needed special adjustments that's on your DH as the ultimate beneficiary, and it's his DM. Meanwhile you are charging her interest for doing the basics, it's extraordinary frankly.

DullAndOvercast · 27/10/2022 11:09

I'd encourage him to see what his other options are TBH - are there B&B with or without meals that are alternatives.

Despite the trust and money spent it's her house for now - in that she is the resident (no idea about legal position ) and if she'll only let him stop for that amount and there are no easy alternatives he'll have to pay.

I don't think it's great behavior - but then I probably wouldn't charge my teens £200 for food even if they stop with us (our parents never did that to us) even if food bill and energy bills went up - though obviously if we were on bones of our arse I might have to but we'd be super reluctant - though probably would charge rent and save it for them.

YeahThanks · 27/10/2022 11:09

I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do to charge your dc rent at this age/stage, if any of mine choose to live at home after Uni I’ll do the same. I might not even save any of it.
I think the GM is being a bit mean charging him to stay now it’s more occasional and he doesn’t eat her food etc. However, it’s up to her if she wants to charge him £25pn as it’s still less than he’d have to pay elsewhere. Your DS should pay the £25, but I wouldn’t do the same in her shoes.
The house isn’t relevant to your DS.

Electricstar · 27/10/2022 11:11

First of all I do not think £200 rent that you are charging is bad at all - I paid £200 when I was earning £1000-1200 a month to my parents and that helped them, plus the cost of electricity and my food. The fact you also pay his transport costs and mobile I think that is decent.

The other £200 (so £400 total) into his savings is a fab idea. I wish my parents did that for me.

I think it really does stem down to MIL’s financial position. My first answer is YANBU as I think the fact your DS will literally be there once or twice a month at MIL and pays for his own food etc. I cannot imagine my Nan charging me to stay over a night or two a month! I would say 95% or Nans on here would agree they wouldn’t charge this. But is MIL struggling? If she is I think that I can see her point here

Also agree with others, MIL probably found the £400 rent really helpful and probably misses that amount.

Bluegingerbread · 27/10/2022 11:15

She sounds like someone who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I actually feel sorry for your DH in this. Guessing all your ages here, it really was not normal for him to grow up in a house in a town with no plug sockets upstairs. She was extremely lucky to have life use of a free house and it sounds as though she has an extreme sense of entitlement and chose to do no upkeep and live in poor conditions. I suspect his childhood had other issues too. Most couples today, let alone single mothers back then would be thrilled to have free use of a house, guaranteed for life. Even if you hated the house, not paying rent or a mortgage would mean you could save to buy.

I think that morally, she shouldn't charge him as he's not getting food, use of washing machine etc and she stayed for so long at yours without contributing. I used to occasionally stay at my grandmother's while I was training as she lived close to my office and if I worked late or went out after work I didn't then have to travel across London alone late at night. She wouldn't have dreamt of charging me and in fact, usually tried to give me 'dinner money' in the morning! I adored her and used to always visit once a week no matter how busy I was with work or how far I had to travel as we had a strong relationship. I doubt your MIL has that relationship with her GC. And yes, I'd bring my gran treats or fish and chips etc or top up her electricity when she wasn't looking as I loved her and she had nothing but her state pension but she would never have charged me or any of her GC for a bed.

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2022 11:17

LifeIsGreatForUnicorns · 27/10/2022 10:55

Does a tenant for life not have to pay anything then?
or should they be expected to keep the property in a liveable condition?
(this is genuine question as we are unsure and yes we are probably at fault as we actually assumed it was her house for years!)

Show quote history

Yes. It's usually written into the inheritance that they have to maintain the property whilst they live in it.
However, back in the real world...

DucklingDaisy · 27/10/2022 11:20

TitInATrance · 27/10/2022 10:31

Your DH is getting his mum to pay the interest on an upgrade to a property held in trust for him? He’s the CF here, and if she only has the state pension this must leave her incredibly short of money.

Yeah, now you’ve revealed the house is actually your husband’s (i.e. your marital) asset, you’re really not coming across well here…

It seems obvious to me that gran wants the money because she’s a skint pensioner and the cost of living is spiralling.

Babyroobs · 27/10/2022 11:23

Honestly who on earth charges someone on an apprentice wage £400 a month whoever it's going to ?? Bizarre.

MummyJ36 · 27/10/2022 11:24

Why are you charging your son to live with you? He’s only 18 and he’s doing an apprenticeship. Hardly earning big bucks and still very young!

CarefreeMe · 27/10/2022 11:25

How much does he earn??

That is a hell of a lot of money for someone (especially doing an apprenticeship) to hand over!

If he’s paying for all his food etc then £25 for the entire week to go towards electricity and water is more than enough.

I do not believe he spends £100 worth of bills in your home every week and it sounds as though you’re just as greedy as MIL.

Yes you are saving half of it for him which is great but £400 a month is a lot!

BillyBigBillicks · 27/10/2022 11:27

Missing the point of the thread entirely but my DS is on an apprenticeship and £400 is most of his wage! I'm shocked his GP is charging him that but even more shocked his parents are also!

reesewithoutaspoon · 27/10/2022 11:28

If she is a single pensioner does she only receive a state pension? because if so, her income could be between 145 to 185 a week depending on her contributions while working. So even top end no more than 800 a month.
She could still be liable for council tax ( Not all councils offer council tax support) my mum is £3 a week over the limit and has to pay £120 a month
Then she has £125 for the loan interest
Energy even if she was extremely frugal could be £100 a month and by that, I mean not having the heating on for more than an hour a day. Any more than that and she's looking at a lot bigger bills.
Half her pension could be gone on those 3 bills alone. Then you have other bills like insurance, TV, prescriptions, and does she have pets?
Unless you can sit down with her and make sure she is getting all the financial help she is entitled to like pension credit, council tax support, TV license exemption, etc, then she may be extremely strained on her finances.
Maybe she is relying on that £25 because when DC is there she puts the heating on for him when she wouldn't usually if he wasn't. Unless you can actually get to grips with her finances its hard to know how much she is struggling, a lot fo older people don't like discussing finances so this could be her way of trying to manage without admitting shes struggling.

EdieLedwell · 27/10/2022 11:28

We changed the payments to £200 to me and £200 to her. Over the last 3 months, he has stayed there only 3 times and as he spends the majority of time at home, I suggested I get the money instead.

This is the part of the OP I can't get past. It's all so transactional. I can't imagine taking that amount of money from my ds. Everyone has their hand in his pocket it would seem.

W0tnow · 27/10/2022 11:29

I would never charge my grandchild rent in that situation.

Bit if my son was staying with either my mum, or my MIL he would be instructed to pitch in and prepare dinner and clear up, and buy groceries and generally be a considerate guest so she would neither be out of pocket, or forced to clear up after him to any great extent.

Derbee · 27/10/2022 11:31

You both sound very mercenary about money, and a young adult trying to find his way.

It all sounds horrible. One grabby person accusing another grabby person of being grabby.

NoSquirrels · 27/10/2022 11:33

Does a tenant for life not have to pay anything then?
or should they be expected to keep the property in a liveable condition?
(this is genuine question as we are unsure and yes we are probably at fault as we actually assumed it was her house for years!)

She’s not the owner. She’s the tenant. So she pays rent (the interest element on the mortgage you took?) and you pay repairs and upgrades.

If your DS couldn’t stay with her he’d pay more than £25 a night to get a hotel room. Yes, most grandparents would do this for free, but your MIL sounds absolutely skint.

reesewithoutaspoon · 27/10/2022 11:33

Also, I don't understand why you are charging her renovations for what is essentially your husband's property and it's him who will benefit, because the house will sell for more renovated than unrenovated so that money will come back to you when she passes.

Wisteriaroundthedoor · 27/10/2022 11:33

Wow at the pair of you fighting over this lads meagre earnings

EdieLedwell · 27/10/2022 11:34

Wisteriaroundthedoor · 27/10/2022 11:33

Wow at the pair of you fighting over this lads meagre earnings

That's what I've been trying to articulate all thread.

Thank you!

NoSquirrels · 27/10/2022 11:36

If I were you, I’d stop taking money from MIL for the mortgage loan cost, and in return for £125 a month agree that your DS can sleep over up to 5x a month, or once a week or whatever.

RedHelenB · 27/10/2022 11:37

NoSquirrels · 27/10/2022 11:33

She’s not the owner. She’s the tenant. So she pays rent (the interest element on the mortgage you took?) and you pay repairs and upgrades.

If your DS couldn’t stay with her he’d pay more than £25 a night to get a hotel room. Yes, most grandparents would do this for free, but your MIL sounds absolutely skint.

She shouldn't even be paying rent if she's been left the right to live there in a will. The property renovations are down to the owner .

DullAndOvercast · 27/10/2022 11:39

BillyBigBillicks · 27/10/2022 11:27

Missing the point of the thread entirely but my DS is on an apprenticeship and £400 is most of his wage! I'm shocked his GP is charging him that but even more shocked his parents are also!

My DP and IL were both made to hand over all their wages - 1960s and then got given back pocket money - they've never done that to their own children.

However while we have all moved out I do know some parents who got very fed up subsidy their working kids who then went on holidays etc and couldn't afford to move out - so I can see a reason to take some money for rent - plus some families would really struggle with money without charging.

However does seem odd to take so much and then moan another family member isn't letting same child stay for free with maybe occasional gifts to say thank you.

user1471457751 · 27/10/2022 11:41

@OnTheRoll the grandfather was probably concerned that if he left it to his daughter then his grandson would ultimately end up with nothing. She chose to never work full-time (because her dad covered her housing costs) and has chosen to never do any maintenance on the house. She's clearly not a responsible person.

NoSquirrels · 27/10/2022 11:42

RedHelenB · 27/10/2022 11:37

She shouldn't even be paying rent if she's been left the right to live there in a will. The property renovations are down to the owner .

Show quote history

Yes, agreed. Ideally she wouldn’t pay rent. I was just trying to clarify for the OP how they have set up the arrangement - effectively MIL is paying them rent.

But she shouldn’t be. So I would stop all the £125 business, and if that means saving less of DS’s £400 rent ‘for his future’ then so be it. The extra property owned will also be in his future at some point.

OP really needs to get clarity on all this.

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