Should MIL be charging her GC for staying with her?

[LifeIsGreatForUnicorns]

Background - DS got offered an apprenticeship in a different town to where we live (2 hours away by train)
As we was staying all week and most weekends an agreement was made he would pay her £400 a month.
After about 6 months, his company changed how they wanted him to work so he was wfh more (he wasn't enjoying living at MIL's as he didn't know anyone, etc) so he reverted to doing approx 2 days a week there and the rest of the time here at home
We changed the payments to £200 to me and £200 to her. Over the last 3 months, he has stayed there only 3 times and as he spends the majority of time at home, I suggested I get the money instead.
FI - when he stays at MIL in the last 3 months, she doesn't cook for him (he buys his own food) & he brings his washing home- whereas at home, he generally eats with us, his washing goes in, etc

He has had to go to up for a couple of nights this week and next (he will probably not then go for a couple of weeks and then may stay 1 or 2 nights only)

MIL has said that if he stays in future he needs to pay £25 a night to stay (no food being offered still!)

For context - she is a single pensioner on her own. There is no mortgage on her house. Last year she stayed with us for 3 months whilst having work completed on her house which we funded and took out a large amount added to our current mortgage which she now pays the interest only on (approx £125 pm) never clearing the capital as her house was in a terrible state with no proper heating and electricity upstairs etc. We did not charge her for staying with us and she made no contribution whilst here (as in she never even paid for a takeaway one night!)

AIBU to think she shouldn't charge DS when he stays occasionally?

YABU - of course she should charge and he should pay
YANBU - he's her GS so should stay free (but maybe it would be nice to get her something sometimes)

It's really scary being a pensioner at the moment because most annuities are a fixed income amount thar doesn't increase with inflation and although the state pension is currently inflation linked that isn't guaranteed. If she didn't have to accommodate her GS occasionally would she be letting out a room for additional income? If so then I think it's fair enough for him to have to pay.

So actually her home improvements are to your and DH's benefit, eventually.

You aren't exactly coming across generous towards anyone, OP.

Not to mention she lived in a house with no suitable electricity before and it all looks like you didn't care until you had to.

in regards to us charging him £400 - i put away half of that for him as savings, to help him plan for the future.
the other half does go to food bills as he's a teenage boy and eats like a horse! 😂

So the house is actually your DHs but she gets to live in it. Was living there in very poor conditions until it was upgraded.
And now she has to pay £125 per month from a pension.
I imagine she is struggling to get by.

I think yabu. You paid to upgrade a house that your dh will inherit. If you charge your own son for rent then obviously as a grandson he'd pay rent.

I feel sorry for your DS in this. Relationships between all parties seem very transactional. Of course he should contribute but I agree with pp that £400 per month paid to either of you is a lot on an apprenticeship wage.

He could be earning 18 - 20 grand though

It’s fair to charge for bills and food if she can’t afford to keep them.

He’s staying 1-2 nights every so often?!

Oh okay that makes sense!

But OP is paying for food, electricity (and water if on a meter) for her DS washing, presumably has internet etc that DS uses, and so on.

GM isn't providing food, he's bringing his washing home. I suppose he could be having a bath/shower, but even with an immersion heater it's not costing anywhere near £25/night.

She is a CF but I also think it’s ridiculous you charge your son when he’s on an apprenticeship. Give the lad a bit of a head start in life.

So the renovations were an investment? She was living in a house you effectively own in sub standard condition? You sound charming.

We wanted him to be aware of how much things cost so I save half of the money he gives me into an account for when he (may eventually) move out.
We pay for his transport costs (as he's an apprentice and train fares are expensive!)
We pay for his mobile phone contract
He is insured on my car (which he pays for) and puts petrol in it but doesn't pay any upkeep on it
My viewpoint is he needs to have an idea of budgeting and costing for future life and to have an idea that money doesn't grow on trees and that the bank of mum and dad will not be there to support him forever

@Weepachu RTFT - OP is saving half the rent for him to have a head start later and provides all food/bills etc Vs Grandmother simply providing a bed and no food/washing

Agree. Pot kettle etc etc.

In regards to the house, it is in her name and we are unable to raise funds against it (it's not like its a buy to let and we could get a mortgage on it and then rent it out to pay the mortgage back) - it is an incredibly complicated situation that we only found out when writing wills - about 4 years ago - we didn't know anything about it till then!
MIL does indeed keep stuff from DH as it's not his business and can be very difficult to deal with
We have offered (and paid for) things to be done to the house previously but she has always refused any help in getting the electricity changed/upgraded as she has the 'it was fine in the 70's and there's nothing wrong with it now' mentality.
She looked at moving to be nearer to us about 15 years ago and we redecorated the whole house for her (and yes paid for the materials) as she didn't want it done - she subsequently did not move but nothing had changed in those 15 years.

I think the house renovation is totally separate, your DH is practically her landlord if she can't sell it and make any money off of it, so it's only fair that you pay for her to have working electrics etc. Just generally bringing the house into this century comfort wise is a small ask in my opinion. I don't necessarily think she should be paying the interest on that loan either as it's to do with upkeep of your DH's house.

Her asking her GS to pay rent when he stays so little is a little odd, but I am guessing she is desperate for more income now that she is also paying the interest on the renovation loan. I personally wouldn't begrudge her £25/night if that is what she wants to charge, but I can see how it could put a strain on the relationship too as it is a little odd to charge family for the odd nights stay.

YABU just based on your use of the phrase "out of wedlock"

Yanbu of course. I can't imagine any grandparent who wasn't in financial need wanting to charge her grandchild for sleeping over now and again.

But.

Whether you or anyone else thinks she shouldn't actually makes no difference. It's her house and those are her terms.

You can't tell her he will stay there and he will pay nothing. That's not your decision.

If it was me I'd book a b&b or travel lodge or something because charging her grandson and not even wanting to feed him really sounds like someone who doesn't particularly want him there tbh.

It sounds like you are trying to teach your son an important lesson about paying his way and contributing to his living expenses. I think if he is expected to pay though to stay in his own home (presumably, he isn't 30 and moved back home on a well paid salary?), then I think the lesson also applies in other people's homes, unless he was specifically invited to stay as their guest. I imagine having only ever worked PT and without a partner/partner's pension to rely on, MIL isn't exactly wealthy regardless of living rent free. So I think it's fair enough he pays her. It's a kind gesture.

You're giving your son zero idea of how much things cost and how to budget if you're making savings on his behalf rather than allowing him to manage his own money and encouraging him to save himself.

If you want to save up for him, do it yourself separately.

If you want him to understand how much things cost then it would have been far more sensible for him to be involved in buying things he needs and paying for some of his bills instead of charging a fixed sum that isn't reflective of the real life costs and he might well be better off saving this money himself.

Your DH is getting his mum to pay the interest on an upgrade to a property held in trust for him? He’s the CF here, and if she only has the state pension this must leave her incredibly short of money.

That's what she says! 😂
I personally couldn't give a damn but she seems to feel it's important that DH knows that she was never married
(and no, DH has never had any contact with his Father as she has never told him who it is!)

Ok I see you are saving money for him.

Am still a bit meh about you charging the interest on the mortgage you took out to renovate was is effectively your OH’s property. It’s like charging her rent to live in her own home. I think most peoples thoughts would have run along the lines of ”My elderly mum is living in a house which is dangerous and uncomfortable, because she has not had the financial ability to renovate it herself, it would be a kind and sensible thing to get the house made safe and liveable for her because it would be untenable if she fell and injured herself ,and as a bonus it would also be a good investment to maintain the integrity of a property which will eventually become mine.”