"How the UK became one of the poorest countries in Europe"

[user1471452428]

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/

Article in The Atlantic. When people post about declining living standards, they're often shouted down- but I think it's pretty clear that it is real and here to stay.

Alexandra2001
the NI economy is doing very well, as its stayed effectively in the single market

September 2022
Northern Ireland's economic growth was among the weakest of the UK's regions in the final quarter of 2021, official data suggests.

When looking at annual growth, Northern Ireland was a mid-table performer.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-62756206

The UK's economy would do far better in the SM than out, so it is material... or as Guy Hands on R4 said recently "otherwise the UK economy is doomed"

This Guy Hands?

2015
Guy Hands, one of the UK's most prominent private equity investors who once described as the "the king of British private equity" by Reuters, thinks the European Union will disintegrate in 15 years' time.

He said there is a perfect storm brewing – weak leadership, political extremism and record immigration. All this will tear apart the 28-nation trading bloc by 2030, he says.

www.businessinsider.com/terra-firma-boss-guy-hands-eu-will-disintegrate-in-15-years-and-war-will-break-out-2015-10?r=US&IR=T

This Northern Ireland @Clavinova

www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-62078425

The Northern Ireland economy continued to grow in the first quarter of 2022, official figures from Nisra suggest.
Output was up by 0.4% compared to the final quarter of 2021 and by 7.8% compared to the same period a year ago.
NI economic output is now at a 15-year high and just 0.1% below the record output level recorded in the middle of 2007.
From late 2007, Northern Ireland experienced a housing crash which caused significant economic damage.
Northern Ireland's performance in the first quarter was weaker than the UK average: UK GDP grew by 0.8% quarter-on-quarter and by 8.7% year-on-year.
However, the NI Statistics and Research Agency (Nisra) says that over a three-year time period Northern Ireland has grown more strongly with output up by 4.8% compared to UK GDP growth of 1.3%.
Nisra uses the three-year comparison in an attempt to mitigate the economic volatility arising from the pandemic.

The pandemic has certainly affected things and made looking at statistics hard. But well done for cherry picking statistics. As usual

Thanks for this. This was the interview I referred to earlier. Interesting to see his other views.

cakeorwine
This Northern Ireland

Yes.
Your BBC article (which pre-dates mine) also says;

In recent months, Northern Ireland's economic data has become intensely political as supporters and opponents of the NI Protocol attempt to construct economic arguments to support their positions.
However, the data is inconclusive with Northern Ireland doing better than the UK average on some metrics and worse on others.

NB I have quoted the ONS in my post - you have quoted NI Statistics and Research Agency (Nisra) - who are using an alternative measurement.

MarshaBradyo

Another article on Guy Hands here - 2015;

Guy Hands is not seen as a natural Labour ally but the issues have made him thus.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/05/guy-hands-a-laboursnp-government-would-be-best-for-renewable-energy

I think that being able to trade easily with your nearest neighbours is a good thing and will help growth.

I think we have put up barriers to that trade.

There are disadvantages to the EU - well discussed, but I think that we could do much much better as a country than we are doing.

Which was one of the drivers of Brexit. But the wrong answer to a big problem. Which is the unfairness of the UK, the deprivation of areas and the feeling of being left behind.

The guests spotted a small rust patch beside the opposite seat where the paint have peeled off. They took out their phones and started taking photos of it, presumably to send to their friends back home

Croque - If I was being taken sightseeing abroad I hope I would have the good manners not to obviously take photographs of shabby buses in order to sneer about them with my friends back home.

What an odd thing for your guests to have done.

I think sst1234 backs up what Hands said on the interview - Brexit goes together with low tax to work.

Imo Labour and Brexit don’t go and will cause the doom spiral he talks about. I’d much prefer Labour to re float the SM and sell the positives. Sunak knows why he wants the Brexit version and he can sell that.

The trouble is population Brexit fatigue which is a huge barrier. Maybe impossible atm. Plus given the attack re the referendum in PMQs Labour may not want to go there.

It’s hard to predict, even Hands mentions disintegration of EU by 2030. A whole symposium with economists, climate etc with fair arguments and I’d try to decide. Unfortunately a vote is three words and whatever spin works.

cakeorwine
I think that being able to trade easily with your nearest neighbours is a good thing and will help growth

Agreed - but that doesn't have to come with the free movement of unskilled/ cheap labour - which (as the writer in the op's link has unwittingly exposed) slows investment and innovation.

Free movement of labour is an essential part of free trade. Trading is a two way transaction. It's not fair trade if only one party gets to trade their assets freely and the other is restricted. One country's assets to trade may be services, another goods, another labour. It exceptionalism to think your country should have restrictions on trading its assets while simultaneously demanding restrictions be placed on others.

It exceptionalism to think your country shouldn't have restrictions on trading its assets while simultaneously demanding restrictions be placed on others.

That's interesting because if you want to spend more than three or four month in some EU countries, there are hoops to jump through to be allowed to open a bank account or rent property.

If you are a working EU citizen that would be illegal under EU law and should be reported via the Citizen's Signpost Service.

Whoever said housing costs are a huge contributor is right. Rent is alottttt

The middle list of richest countries all appear to be tax havens. Now that we are out of Europe we can become one too. Ireland has been ticked off by the EU for being a tax haven so we could step into their place now.

The good people of Rotterdam whom I've lived among beg to differ:

www.rotterdam.nl/loket/registration/

Are you staying in Rotterdam for longer than 4 months? Make an appointment for registration in the Municipal Personal Records.

By clicking the button 'Make an appointment', you enter a questionnaire to see which documents you need and which appointment you must make. At the end of the questionnaire you can make the right appointment. Per person you make a separate appointment.

... Make sure that:

you bring all the required documents

everyone who needs to be registered is present in person

you cancel your appointment if you are unable to go

Are you moving to a home for which a housing permit (huisvestingsvergunning) is required? Make sure you make an appointment for first registration with housing permit.

Free movement of labour is an essential part of free trade

A free trade agreement reduces or eliminates tariffs and quotas from goods and services being traded within the area. A single market does the same but goes a lot further. A single market includes the free movement of goods, services, labour, and capital.

Trading is a two way transaction. It's not fair trade if only one party gets to trade their assets freely and the other is restricted. One country's assets to trade may be services, another goods, another labour

Skilled labour is an asset - unskilled labour not so much.

Beg to differ about what? It's always been EU law that member states can ask EU citizens to register. It's hardly jumping through hoops. Registration form, passport, proof of employment and you're good to go. Took me 5 minutes. The UK chose not to do this and then blamed the EU for it.

Skilled labour is an asset - unskilled labour not so much.

Tell that to the farmers with crops rotting in the fields or hospitality venues that are closing due to having no staff.

@Fladdermus It didn't take 5 minutes in Rotterdam and if you're looking to take your family, everyone needs to be there in person, punctually for the appointment. it's their city, they are entitled to make rules that work for them.

You are quite right that Blair and Brown chose not to apply restrictions that were lawfully adopted elsewhere. They are responsible for the current appalling levels of slavery in the UK. Maros Tancos (www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/duo-jailed-10-counts-modern-slavery) has been mentioned earlier. Three more slaveholders were sentenced in Wales this week (www.gla.gov.uk/whats-new/latest-press-releases/24082022-three-exploiters-guilty-of-modern-slavery-offences-in-south-wales/).

Tell that to the farmers with crops rotting in the fields or hospitality venues that are closing due to having no staff

There was a gastro pub near Oxford featured in the news recently - they were complaining about Brexit and lack of staff. I looked at their job adverts and they wanted a minimum of one year's experience.

Robots!
World’s first raspberry picking robot cracks the toughest nut: soft fruit.
Developed in Britain, the fruits of the automated harvester with a delicate touch are now in a supermarket near you.

Two robots developed by Fieldwork Robotics, a spinout company from the University of Plymouth, have been harvesting the berries round the clock in polytunnels in a field near Odemira in south-west Portugal. The farm is run by the Summer Berry Company, which is based near Chichester in West Sussex and is a leading supplier to British supermarkets including M&S, Ocado, Tesco, Sainsbury’s and Waitrose.

The robots are being used amid shortages of seasonal workers across Europe.
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jun/01/uk-raspberry-picking-robot-soft-fruit

😂😂😂

Ireland isn't really a tax haven. They just have a low corporate tax rate. Ireland pisses the EU off quite frequently but they just sort of ignore them 😎. Ireland also has access to the single market and is in the EU. The UK has neither of those things. Ireland also has an extremely well-educated workforce in the tech industries. While the UK is funded by the City, Ireland is funded by tech.

Exactly what do you think a tax haven is?

This is how the UK fucked up.

I love the very end of this clip. It's a 5 minute clip but if your attention span for idiocy is limited, scroll to 3 minutes 50 seconds.

The poetic justice of an Irish woman having the last say on Nigel, the UK and their flag in EU parliament and her utterly brilliant decision to mute him, is something of a joy to behold.

"The British are too big to bully"

Most ironic statement ever made in parliament.