"How the UK became one of the poorest countries in Europe"

[user1471452428]

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/

Article in The Atlantic. When people post about declining living standards, they're often shouted down- but I think it's pretty clear that it is real and here to stay.

"Please sit down, resume your seats, put your flags away and take them with you if you are leaving now. Goodbye" 😉

Yeah, I can clearly see how the UK can become a tax haven. Man alive! The continued arrogance is just baffling. Everyone wants money in sterling lol.

A tax haven is typically a country which allows you to funnel finances through a company registered there, but in which you don't actually operate. The Cayman Islands is the most famous example probably, but there are others. They are essentially countries which allow you to have a shell company there but the company is there in name only.

Ireland is a little bit different. A lot of the multinationals in Ireland, do actually operate out of Ireland. It has a highly qualified workforce and it is a member of the EU which means that it's a no-brainer for these tech giants.

The population of the Cayman Islands is 67,507.

However, The Cayman Islands' tax-free status has attracted numerous banks and other companies to its shores. More than 92,000 companies were registered in the Cayman Islands as of 2014,[12] including almost 600 banks and trust companies, with banking assets exceeding $500 billion.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Cayman_Islands

Ireland is not really a tax haven. It just figured out how to attract multinationals.

Come on! Ireland's tax treatment of multinationals is so self-serving that the EU actually litigated against them for breaking the rules on state aid. They had to do it that way because the EU hasn't much remit re taxation.

The Irish basically had a law that exempted all companies from taxation whose names began when 'A' and ended in 'pple'.

They are a bit of a law unto themselves to be fair. 😉

Google and Facebook are there too.

Perhaps they should move their HQ to London! Cos that's going to get them far!

Any debts Ireland had to the EU, it has paid off. Ireland benefits massively from being an EU member state but they are not easy to rail-road. Foreign investment in Ireland is something which they focused on massively. They have a unique position with a very good worldwide reputation (and not for being drunk).

Ireland disagrees vociferously with the EU on a lot of things but the biggest three are corporate tax, a federal government and their neutrality.

Ireland enjoys excellent relationships with most countries (not just within the EU).

Most EU countries disagree on a lot of things but being in the EU certainly appears to be better than not being in it.

The diversity of culture, languages, governance and economies within the EU is huge, so disagreements are to be expected.

From the Greeks who invented democracy, to the Italians renowned for art and food to the Germans famed for their efficiency, the EU is a unique place really. On the whole, it has proven to be a mutually beneficial environment for most involved.

The UK felt that they didn't benefit from membership of the EU and so they left. The UK brought a lot to the EU. Nobody would deny that.

The other industry Ireland has a lot of is pharmaceuticals.

I ignored the poster mid-way through the thread who stated the industries most countries had but listed Ireland as simply being a tax haven (sometimes it's easier not to argue).

Aside from that, Ireland has a good tourism industry.

You don't really get mega-rich people in Ireland. It's a more equitable society than the UK. That said, a lot of actors have holiday homes in Ireland as they like the privacy they can have there.

Oh and they grow potatoes. 🤓

I think some people don't yet understand why the tech giants have HQs in Ireland?

In order to trade FREELY within the EU (whether that's selling a product or a service), you need to have a company registered in an EU member state. You could put it in Spain, Portugal, Poland, Germany, Ireland etc. You could also have headquartered in the UK before they left the EU.

You can of course trade with the EU from outside the EU, but you'll pay tariffs, so it's cheaper to set up an arm of the company in an EU state.

Ireland was the location of choice for a lot of the US multinationals because they're English speaking, have a low corporate tax rate, are EU members and have the skilled workforce required. You also get to drink a pint of Guinness when you're visiting which is of course extremely important. You might even get a chance to look up your ancestors 😆

I'm not really sure where to start with this post as this is the one that I referred to in my last post. This poster mentions Toyota, Nissan and Vauxhall as being UK car manufacturers lol. Unless I've completely lost touch with reality, Toyota and Nissan are Japanese and Vauxhall and BMW are German.

Ford is British owned still I think?

Even Land Rover is now owned by an Indian company Land Rover got its start as the Rover Company in 1885, which began as a bicycle manufacturer in Warwickshire, England. After changing ownership a few times over decades of history, Land Rover is now owned by the Indian auto manufacturing giant Tata Motors

Something that's often not mentioned is that the UK was very useful as a bridge into the EU for English-speaking countries outside it, particularly ones with common-law legal systems. I would expect Ireland to be the beneficiaries of that now, although I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the actual work was done by people sitting in London. We will see - the truth is that once Brexit actually happened Covid hit so it's still early days (even if an age since 2016.)

I like the thought of the Irish being as much of an awkward squad as the UK. Not something I've heard about.

I'm interested that the UK was regarded as a contributor (other than in money). All I heard was what a pain in the arse the UK was and how all the other Europeans hated the UK.

Ford is and always has been American (although goodness knows who holds the shares now.)

The Irish have come under sustained pressure from the EU (and from Trump in fact during his tenure) in relation to their corporate tax rates over the years. Macron was the most outspoken within the EU I believe. So far, they have held firm through successive governments.

Of course the UK was a contributor. They were one of the bigger powerhouses - it was the UK and Germany mainly with France probably being the other big one. They were a stable and strong economy and were a great asset to the team as such.

I think the UK isn't really a team player though, so what can you do! A lot of smaller economies benefited from the EU. Some countries paid in more, some paid in less. Ireland has only recently become a net contributor as far as I know.

I'm a little bit sad about it all.

Is the EU perfect? Fuck no.

Wasn't it Henry Ford? I should google.

Oh! He was American! You learn something new every day.

Jaguar, Bentley, Rolls Royce - they're all British though I think.

Ireland also has a bizarre constitutional position which means that nothing can change without a referendum, unlike other countries within the EU.

It does mean that they have MANY REFERENDUMS though and that irritates the ever-living shit out of the EU too. 😆

I'm not sure they are - these days it's hard to allocate a company to any particular country. Shareholding? HQ? Factory location? Nationality of board of directors? Would you say Guinness was Irish, for example?

So in other words, only in an economic sense after all.

They didn't love us, just or pounds!!! 😰

It's a bit like family lol. There's always one asshole!

Christmas is coming and soon we'll have the threads popping up about the in-laws and the poor relations lol.

I'm joking lol. I know that the British are a sensitive bunch.

The EU's raison d-etre was financial strength and military defence. United we stand, divided we fall.

The EU certainly valued the UK membership. Simpler times.

I suppose the EU is a bit like family though. Strange as it may seem, despite the bitter relationship between Ireland and the UK in the past, we are still next door neighbours and are very intertwined so are probably the closest linked to the UK of all the EU countries - well until the UK decided to fuck off.

Yes, when I think about it, it's like family. It's ok for me to criticise my family members, but if anyone else criticises them, they'll regret it. 😁

This is a good explainer of why Ireland works.