"How the UK became one of the poorest countries in Europe"

[user1471452428]

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/

Article in The Atlantic. When people post about declining living standards, they're often shouted down- but I think it's pretty clear that it is real and here to stay.

Maybe buy a small calculator. One that works.

We're discussing expenditure darling. Not income.

Where are you getting 1.1 million from?

I am slightly worried that you cannot see that if people have less income to save, they therefore need to claim in order to live. = more expenditure for the state.

Thanks for the link @Believeitornot

I see that almost 6 million people’s wages are being subsidised by the government via UC.
Is this sustainable? Aren’t we perpetuating a low wage economy with taxpayers money? Why should employers pay more when UC takes care of it.
Are there incentives to upskill and invest in better trained (and paid) workforce?

That article says that 1.1 million get the full amount. So the rest will get some, not all.

that doesn’t mean only 1.1 million get a pension.

Read it again darling. SLOWLY.

It says 40% of 1.1 million get the full pension. Therefore the total amount of claimants is 1.1 million.

I know, it’s a travesty.

Some people on universal credit would have got disability benefit under the old system so they shouldn’t be there but don’t have the ability to fight DWP decisions (people may have heard the horror stories of people dying due to universal credit decisions).

But yes - there’s no incentive. Our country’s economy is skewed by London and the City. Liz truss tried to put this down to lazy workers but actually it’s because there’s no incentive for companies to invest here. The government needs to lay the foundations first - spot new opportunities such as green technology etc and grow skills that way. No point educating people if they’ve got no companies to work in!

I'm slightly worried that you can't read.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It isn’t all or nothing. You can get the full amount or some of it when claiming pensions.

That pension spend will also include winter fuel allowances as well.

Seriously.

I’m going to ignore you now as you don’t know what you are doing.

A lot of people are talking about this fudging of statistics. My eyebrows were raised recently when the ONS decided we weren't in a recession last quarter after all. Was wondering if metric definitions had changed or something.

I'm not a huge fan of Adam Curtis but his recent programme on Russia and its failing economy years ago was depressing. I kept thinking that we were showing signs of going the same way. Lots of parallels.

There’s been a really interesting series on BBC iplayer recently which shows the fall of the Soviet Union and rise of the oligarchs, and their links to Putin. What a depressing state of affairs.

It began years ago with the decline in manufacturing production, in the car, ship building and many other sectors. The refusal by unions ( who were regularly on strike) and governments meant that when investment and automation were required to maintain efficiency and produce a high quality product the U.K lagged behind.
Meanwhile, motorbike, car, armouries, ship, rail and plane production deteriorated and excelled in Japan, Korea and other European countries. All the support industries, steel works, machine shops, transport, etc. also declined.
Sad but true, we don't make much now and buy it from elsewhere. The service and finance Industries are all easily movable (hence Indian call centres)
Now that these Industries have been gone generations there is nobody left to passion skills.
I also agree that the low wage culture supported by tax credits has not helped with investment and efficiency.

Yes..............

We've understood that.

Nowhere is 12 million pensioners mentioned!

1.1 million. 40% get the full pension. 60% of the 1.1 million, get a lesser amount.

Jesus.

Is that you Kwasi?

2022 figures
UK GDP per capita is now behind France and Germany, still slightly ahead of Italy and Spain
worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gdp-per-capita-by-country

This again.... France has a productivity rate we can only dream of.
Inflation at 6%.
A health service we have never been near..

Look at GDP per capita.

Norway? we produce 67% of our own domestic energy over the course of the year.....So why aren't we getting wealthier instead of poorer?

We need to nationalise NS production and go far further than Labours GB Energy plan or we will be forever paying super hi energy prices = subsidy = more borrowing... how is any of that sustainable?

£4.4 billion on pensioners receiving the full amount
Let's estimate a further £7 billion on the remaining 60% of pensioners.

11.4 billion on the pensioners.

We spend £302 billion on social protection! Who the fuck is getting the remaining £296 billion per annum?

THOSE FIGURES DO NOT ADD UP.

That newspaper article refers to the new state pension.

Most pensioners are on the old state pension.

So we've two types of pensions?

Ok, so 115.78 billion on pensioners (I've googled).

So 186 billion is going to who?????????

Yes.
For men born after 1951 and women after 1953, they get the new one.

people born before then get the old pension.

Is there any chance we could retire our pensioners to Spain? 😁

Im not sure where you’ve got your numbers from (187 billion), but the graph I posted earlier shows you the breakdown of claimants.