"How the UK became one of the poorest countries in Europe"

[user1471452428]

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/

Article in The Atlantic. When people post about declining living standards, they're often shouted down- but I think it's pretty clear that it is real and here to stay.

Government welfare spending is broken down here
www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_welfare_spending_40.html
Biggest chunks are pensions £178bn
Health £210bn
Education £105 bn
Welfare £142bn (unemployment is just 1.2bn of this)

@Alexandra2001

Re. France, they rely heavily on nuclear power and its healthcare is not free. I suspect that if the NHS charged us for their services the above mentioned pie chart would look very different!

Their high productivity level is a mystery to me. Off to do some reading!

Re. Norway’s energy supply, they are self sufficient and a net exporter of energy to Europe. A very different position to the UK, I think.

That’s a messy website. Easier to stick to official statistics to be honest!

We do pay for the NHS - via tax.

It always needs paying for. Call it “insurance”, it’s still a way of being paid for.

I wouldn’t mind a not for profit insurance style system for the NHS but we’d still need to pay for a basic level - eg children, those who aren’t able to work etc would still need healthcare.

Benefits
Other social protection schemes

There are a lot of people - so a big number divided by a big number isn't that big a number

And that's why inflation is going to hit public spending

These figures indicate a basket-case!

Are there still people doing the Brexit arms on here? Or has it been closed and boarded up along with the rest of the country

That’s a messy website. Easier to stick to official statistics to be honest!

Do you mean these ones? The website I linked to just summarises these
www.gov.uk/government/statistics/public-expenditure-statistical-analyses-2022

Yes! It was going mad on my phone

Not surprising after 40 odd years of neo liberal style economic policies.

?

Brexit has been yet another chapter in the shit show of economic mismanagement.

Norway has a tiny population, around 5M compared to 60M + UK and has enormous financial reserves from oil.

Neo-liberalist governments have tried to hide their complete failure of management behind the pretence that the markets will sort everything out if you don’t hold them back with pesky regulations, taxes and controls, through the supposedly noble and perfect process of supply and demand. The result has been the free flow of tax-avoided private wealth all around the world, benefiting the private owners of the wealth and their advisers, but not the countries facilitating the wealth creation. Actual countries are just raped of their resources, have their infrastructure run down, and then, when they have been so comprehensively shat on that they no longer have anything worth destroying, the wealthy flounce off to piss on somewhere else.

Government spending on social security has gone up in all developed countries over the last four decades. It's due to aging populations. Governments don't like to admit it, but one reason why immigration has become so high is to generate increased tax revenue from working-age immigrants.

The tax burden since the 1950s has gone up not down, mostly by increasing sales taxes like VAT.

Compared to back then, the UK has a massively reduced defence spend: no point (but also no money) in having the world's biggest fleet for one.

I know, I was mortified. Luckily, there were not many passengers on the bus to call them out. It was done really gleefully. I had to limit my expression of disgust because the person taking the photos had recently had life saving surgery. My DS was particularly annoyed because he loves buses.

France nationalised its nuclear power, then the govt controls the price..... so no longer reliant on global commodity prices.

We could do the same with our gas production? cheaper than borrowing 150 billion.

France has consistently spent 1 or 2% more of GDP on health annually, over 30/40 years that adds up to a huge amount and it shows.

Yes i would support charging small amounts for GP & consultant appointments & ae ...... BUT only when the services were worth paying for, with all monies ringfenced... subject to affordability as we do with prescriptions.

Anecdotally, when my car broke down in France this summer, the service i got from a french garage was exceptional, both in regard to the labour charged and the speed in how a complex repair was carried out.... & this is not the first time either... so no surprise they have good productivity.

Aging populations don’t help, but they are in no way the sole cause.

Aging populations don’t help, but they are in no way the sole cause

It doesn't help. We are getting older - and health care is getting better but older people generally need more support with care and take up a lot of health spending in proportion to the size of the population.

There are also fewer younger people - so somehow money needs to be generated to support Government spending - which goes on health, social security and debt repayments (have you seen what we spend on interest on debt)

I don't see this issue being talked about - the triple lock is talked about a lot, but who is going to end up paying for all this?

@cakeorwine - it’s not a question of who is going to end up paying for it - the young are already paying for it with the lack of investment in anything that will safeguard their present or future.

Actual countries are just raped of their resources, have their infrastructure run down, and then, when they have been so comprehensively shat on that they no longer have anything worth destroying, the wealthy flounce off to piss on somewhere else

Citation needed

You really need a citation for that?

Ironically making things harder for the future and limiting the 'size of the pie' to pay for an ageing population.

The UK population has other ticking health timebombs such as diabetes and obesity linked diseases.

Citation needed 😂.
There are occasional leaks of information, of course (eg the Panama Papers), but given the parlous state of the environment and widely publicised depletion of the earth’s resources, I think it’s fair to say the notion that unfettered markets and low regulation will sort everything out is a self-destructive pipe dream. And even within the UK itself, it’s plain to see the effects of exploiting areas industrially and then moving on without a backward glance.

Really, the question is, how can humanity protect itself from itself?

Well, when the aging pass their properties on to the youth, we'll all be fine. 😎