AIBU to expect to keep my full holiday entitlement?

[namechange0998776554432]

I've just applied to change my hours at work so I finish at 3pm every day, meaning I now work 80% of my full time hours. I was previously entitled to 25 days holiday but they're saying that will reduce to 20
(I.e. 20% less). I understand the logic, but I'm still working every day and losing a whole week's holiday is going to be pretty significant for me. The reason I'm cutting my hours is because I have no childcare outside of school! My pay is already reducing by 20% so taking a weeks leave from me on top seems unfair.

Surely, since in each day I work 20% less hours, when I am on leave I am also taking 20% less leave. So, I should still get 25 days (but am taking 20% less hours each day). I already argued this to HR but they refused, and sent me a policy which very clearly states the calculation and says if you're part time on e.g. 80% hours, you get 80% leave even if you work 5 days a week. This seems wrong to me but they refuse to give in.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation and managed to argue successfully? Am I being unreasonable to expect a bit more from a company who claims to support women who need flexible working arrangements?

You need to be able to book your holiday in hours, not days, so that you can take off only the hours you would have been working.
If their leave booking system can't cope with that, then they either need to process things manually, or agree that you have 25 days off.

Their system works for those who work 4 full days a week; they should indeed only be allowed to take 20 of them off. It does not currently work for you.

(Things could be more complicated - if they had someone working a mix of full and part days. In fact, my employer is just trying to work out how on earth to make booking leave work for employees who work completely flexible hours, some at weekends. There is no easy answer - possibly none at all.)

I would think it's either 80 percent of days based on previous amount of pay or same amount of days at 80% of the old pay. Sounds like y doing this your loosing 20% of days and amount. Check your contract and contact acas. Mine states a set number.

This ^^ your HR department can't have it both ways ie its hours when they are reducing the rate, but days when they then reapply it to your work pattern!

Has no-one in your organisation ever gone part time before @namechange0998776554432 ?

It's unbelievable that HR can't work this out in this day and age. Everyone knows part time workers get their holidays in hours because MANY women part timers only work part of a day in order to do school pickup therefore a day off is 5 hours (or whatever). If a full timer gets 5 weeks holiday then a part timer also gets 5 weeks holiday, it's just that there week is fewer hours.

Your HR sound bonkers and incompetent in equal measures

This is what I have but it works for me because I dropped a day and that's how I went down to 80% so for a week off I now need 4 days holiday rather than 5. In your circumstances it doesn't though because you'll use a whole days holiday for less than a whole day off. They need to do your holidays in hours rather than days.

Yes, some have and I'm now very tempted to ask them what holiday entitlement they were given. There are none that I know well enough for it not to be a bit rude though

No they are wrong. You work 5 days a week, therefore you should get the usual 25 days holiday - accepting that each day of holiday you take is already worth 80% less (as you're only paid until 3pm). A cut in days means you lose out twice!

Conversely, if given and taken in hours you'd still get the equivalent of 25 days, as YOUR days are short.

HR sometimes struggle with this for some reason but you're not wrong.

You should get the same amount of days it’s just you get 20% less hours. In other words if it’s calculated in hours then you get less hours annual leave (because for each day you want to take off you’ll only book 6 hours rather than 7.5) but they give it to you in days, it should be the same amount of days as both your working day and holiday day are 20% shorter than a full time person’s.

*sorry worth 20% less, wrong way round!

I work completely flexible part-time hours. It couldn’t be simpler to make this work. You just need to take as much annual leave as needed to top up your hours for the week.

You are correct. Your employer is wrong.

Of course your leave will reduce. It will be in hours so you’ll have say 5-6 daily not 8, so it’s the same.

Pretty sure OP will see her leave is now in hours. If not keep an offline record. Work out how many hours your leave is and deduct off the hours each day. They won’t be expecting you to use a full days leave when you’re not full time

Same happened to me, it changed from days to hours.

You get out of it what you put into it.

It seems quite unusual for an HR system to only allow booking in whole days, but if this is definitely the case they need to give you 25 bookable days and you should absolutely stick to your guns. They can't have a policy to treat part-timers less favourably because it makes things easier for them administratively.

Following

How are companies still getting this stuff wrong?

It's the absolute bread and butter of HR!

OP, if your company can't cope with this, they'd hate what happens with my staff! Officers working varying length shifts at varying payrates, and we still manage to work it out right. It's honestly not that hard.

You are right - you should now have 25 x YOUR day OR 80% of fulltime day x 25 and your leave should be expressed in hours. Speak to someone whose not the intern and start mentioning ACAS.

Lol!

@namechange0998776554432
Reference the Working Time Regulations (13 & 13A) which grant statutory leave in weeks. Plus the Part Time workers (Prevention of less favourable treatment) Regulations.

The best way is to show HR a worked calculation in hours for a full time employee and two job share employees. I’ve copied my worked example for you to use to write one with your exact hours and leave entitlement.

Employee A works Mon Tue & Wed AM = 18 hours 45 mins
Employee B works Wed PM, Thu & Fri = 18 hours 45 Mins

Full time =

• 5 days
• 37.5 hours
• 20 days leave x 7.5 hours = 150 hours
• 8 BH x 7.5 hours = 60 hours

Total gross leave = 210 hours. Less 60 hours for BH falling on working days Total net leave = 150 hours

Employee A

• MTW(AM) 2.5 days
• 18.75 hours
• Leave 150 hours/37.5 x 18.75 = 75 hours
• BH 60 /37.5 x20 = 30 hours

Gross leave = 105 hours less BH falling on a working day (NYD, Mon = 7.5, GF Fri = 0, EM Mon = 7.5, MD Mon = 7.5, SBH Mon = 7.5, ABH Mon = 7.5, CD Tue = 7.5 BD Wed = 3.75) = 48.75 hours Net leave 105 - 48.75 = 56.25 hours

Employee B

• W(PM), TF 2.5 days
• 18.75 hours
• Leave 150 hours/37.5 x 18.75 = 75 hours
• BH 60 /37.5 x20 = 30 hours

Gross leave = 105 hours Less BH falling on a working day NYD, Mon = 0, GF Fri = 7.5, EM Mon = 0, MD Mon = 0, SBH Mon = 0, ABH Mon = 0, CD Tue = 0, BD Wed = 3.75) = 11.25 Net leave 105 - 11.25 = 93.75 hours

BH
NYD New Years Day
GF Good Friday
EM Easter Monday
MD May Day
SBH Spring BH
ABH August BH
CD Christmas Day
BD Boxing Day

2022 would be different because of Jubilee and funeral weekends. As NYD, CD & BD move each year the calculations need doing each year.

They can't treat part timers less favourably than full timers.
Saying a 5 day a week part timer can only take 4 weeks off when a 5 day a week full timer can take 5 is definitely less favourable.

I'm sure it's a simple misunderstanding by the intern, its extremely unlikely that any kind of cohort of part time employees is being short changed on holiday and no one has realised

The exact thing happened to me when I dropped to 90% of a working day but continued to work 5 days a week. I had to go back and forth with HR and spoke to ACAS - it was eventually resolved. Beware though, each time our annual leave year rolls over I have to check the allowance is correct and it invariably isn’t!!

Exactly this

Half the replies on here are nonsense. If you work the same hours, say 8 til 4, 5 days per week holiday would be calculated in days, so it sounds like in your company standard holiday for a full time employee is 25 days.

If you work the same days and set hours but finish at 3 it would still be counted in days but a days holiday would be 1 hour less so still 25 days holiday but a days holiday would only equate to 6 hours pay and not 7.

The only time holiday is generally calculated in hours is when an employee works less than 5 days per week and / or erratic hours.

I would either use the gov holiday calculator and take this to your boss/HR or speak to ACAS and get them to put something in writing for you as tou ate correct that what you have described is diddling you out of holiday pay you are legally entitled to