AIBU to expect to keep my full holiday entitlement?

[namechange0998776554432]

I've just applied to change my hours at work so I finish at 3pm every day, meaning I now work 80% of my full time hours. I was previously entitled to 25 days holiday but they're saying that will reduce to 20
(I.e. 20% less). I understand the logic, but I'm still working every day and losing a whole week's holiday is going to be pretty significant for me. The reason I'm cutting my hours is because I have no childcare outside of school! My pay is already reducing by 20% so taking a weeks leave from me on top seems unfair.

Surely, since in each day I work 20% less hours, when I am on leave I am also taking 20% less leave. So, I should still get 25 days (but am taking 20% less hours each day). I already argued this to HR but they refused, and sent me a policy which very clearly states the calculation and says if you're part time on e.g. 80% hours, you get 80% leave even if you work 5 days a week. This seems wrong to me but they refuse to give in.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation and managed to argue successfully? Am I being unreasonable to expect a bit more from a company who claims to support women who need flexible working arrangements?

Ours is calculated by days to so when I was full time I got 25 days which equated to 5 weeks now I'm part time and work 3 days a week I get 15 days which still equals 5 weeks . If you still work the same number of days just reduced hours you should still get the same number of days holiday just reduced pay as your day is shorter .

OP I really hope you aren’t being put off getting this sorted because of some of the nonsense comments and frankly shitty maths skills of some people on here.

I have dug out the email conversations I had with my HR team back in 2015. It’s been covered several times but almost definitely worth reiterating the point.

My working hours changed from 35 hours per week (Monday to Friday 9-5 with an hour for lunch) to 32.5 hours per week (Monday to Friday 9-4 with a half hour for lunch).

Annual leave entitlement for all employees is 30 days or pro rata’d based on hours worked per week. That remains the same as I am still working 5 days a week.

FT entitlement is 210 hours (30 days multiplied by 7 hours worked per day).

6.5 hours worked per day is 195 hours entitlement. Therefore when you book a “day” leave it should reduce your entitlement by 6.25 hours each time. This will ONLY apply if an employee works 5 days a week.

It took three months and a conversation with ACAS to confirm all this with HR but got it sorted in the end. Do persevere with this because you are right!!!!!

@Utilityroomenvy 3 months with ACAS involvement, that is appalling.

What I don’t understand is the Working Time Regs came in to effect in October 1998 and the The Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations came into effect in July 2000. The original right to request flexible working came into effect in 1996 (I think as part of Employment Rights Act). So why are so many employers and HR people getting it wrong over 20 years from when the legislation was implemented.

I joined HR in 1992 and we had a long standing methodology which, used hours to be absolutely fair and, is still legally compliant 30 years later. Whilst HR systems I use are now configured with this methodology there are still published worked examples so employees can work it out themselves.

Not to worry this is your life. Not entertainment.

There are two ways hours can be reduced by 20%. If OP went from 5 to 4 days a week, and holiday entitlement went from 25 to 20 days, she'd still be able to take five weeks holiday, because she would only have to book 4 days off for each week of holiday. It would be illogical if reducing each day by 20% did not give the same result as leaving the day length unchanged and reducing the number of days by 20%.

The contract is probably correct in saying she should have 20 days, the problem is the holiday booking system that does not allow her to book 0.8 day units of holiday for each calendar day she intends to be away.

I work in HR.
Your holidays seem incorrect.
Unless you are working uneven hours per day, I dont see how your holidays have reduced. As youve said, you still work 5 days per week; you are finishing early. So if you want to take a week off, you should take 5 days off - I dont see why this has been reduced. I'd speak to them again as something doesnt seem right - if that policy is correct, I'd speak to acas or file a grievance, they are reducing your holidays unfairly.

xox

I’m an employment lawyer - your holiday entitlement should not change, if it’s calculated in days, because you should receive 25 (or however many a FT worker would get) days, paid at your normal day rate of 6 hours, rather than the FT 8 hour day.

Theres no need to calculate in hours as you don’t have variable hours, it really is straightforward and I’m not sure why your HR department are struggling so much with it (although many do).

Your HR Dept sounds a bit dim. They are mixing up days and hours. You still work the same number of days and should still get the same number of days holiday as you did before. This is really basic stuff. I'd check they haven't done you out of Bank Hols as well.

I work for large retail department store and holidays are so complicated as in that I work a 5 week rota (different days each week) 4 days a week and my holiday entitlement is
19.5 days holiday
49 hours bank holiday entitlement and bh entitlement has to come off those hours if your days you would have worked fall on Xmas day, Boxing Day, New Year’s Day which obviously change each year I wish they were all lumped together and either given in days or hours

I work on average 31 hours a week

Sorry, no reply from HR so I won't have an update until Monday

If she takes a day off she's only getting paid 0.8 of a full time person's hours not the whole day. I'm part time myself and do 30hrs, I take my time off in hours but it equates to the same amount of weeks as a full time person. I also have to use my AL allowance for bank holidays which goes against me as I have to book 6.5hrs off (my normal working hours on a Monday) but only get a 6hr allowance for bank Holidays because that's 0.8 of a day. So for every BH I lose 30 min which obviously adds up over the year as we have around 10.

This ^ we all book in hours at my place of work because of all the different shifts and hour variations we all do. Nobody uses days, we are given hours pro rata and thats how we book holidays. "Days" just wouldnt work as some people do 12 hours some do 4 hours, its a 24/7 operational job with everyone on various hours

Update: HR have agreed and will change my holiday entitlement to hours so I won't miss out. Thank you everyone!

Hurrah!

Yay!! Glad it's all sorted!!

Fantastic outcome

Excellent result! Well done OP!

Well done.

Nice one. Arithmetic logic wins again!

Great outcome, maths prevailed!

They need to tell your managers to update their knowledge on part time workers

@namechange0998776554432 great outcome.

Great OP! (And hope all those posters who couldn't see why calculating in hours was both relevant and possible, see your update!)

I don't understand this at all.
Where I work... if I'm full time and have 100hrs, then I switch to part time - I still have 100hrs. Maybe that's just a shift work thing. How can they take hours away from you.